Mooney_Driver wrote:
@Silvaire how did you get the certificate in Germany? Show your vaccination and it was issued by whom? Might be a way to do that if we loose the certificate.
There is no official route, per the US Germany Embassy Website
The route I used (as per my earlier post) was to visit pharmacies (Apoteken) until I found one that one that was not scared to do it based on my informal, hand written CDC vaccination card – which isn’t and was never intended to be an official document. Whether they are officially allowed to do it was not clear, I was once told they were not, but when I found a willing one there was no hesitancy.
What I think will happen if European countries persist with this inward looking 1984-style totalitarian nonsense is that they will officially exempt non-residents, or accept whatever they show. The latter is already true at the port of entry, but it’s not highlighted because as per the screen shot above there was once a vain hope at the EU that the whole world would join in making individual vaccination status government tracked.
I think it’s more likely that the digital Covid vaccination and certification requirement to enter businesses will be quietly dropped in European countries, over time.
Silvaire wrote:
I think it’s more likely that the digital Covid vaccination and certification requirement to enter businesses will be quietly dropped in European countries, over time.
I seem to remember that there was a sunset clause on the EU laws that brought it in anyway, for some time in 2022. So unless it’s renewed then, it will be gone by default.
Florida is going to see a lot of EU-resident tourists this winter 
Graham wrote:
I wouldn’t worry too much about that. It doesn’t seem beyond the wit of man to create a legal basis for the existence of the certificates that makes it clear that the permissible use is only for international travel, and a country like Switzerland is hardly likely to take legislative action that prevents all its citizens ever leaving – it is not North Korea!
The legal base for the certificate lies in the law that comes up for referendum, including the acknowledgement of the said certificate for travel. If the law is abolished or rather the revision of it not accepted, then the legal frame which allows anyone to issue the certificate is gone.
No, the government does not want that. But the radical anti measure anti vaxxer crowd do and they work up a huge storm. The government has made it abundantly clear that if the referendum goes through and the legal base for the certificate expires in March 22, then nobody in this country has the right to issue new certificates after this date and also whatever private entities may do would not be reckognized in the EU.
So this excludes the way the UK has done, as issuing the certificate within the EU green pass norms would be without legal base. Probably what would happen is that we would have to try to go abroad while the old certificate is still valid and try to get a new one in Germany or Austria.
Polls indicate however that 60% of the general population are pro certificate. The question will be who can mobilize better. The 40% who obviously want to abolish the certificate no matter what will be totally motivated to vote. So they can easily outvote the majority.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
The question will be who can mobilize better. The 40% who obviously want to abolish the certificate no matter what will be totally motivated to vote. So they can easily outvote the majority.
In a democracy, it were ever thus.
I am not aware of a better system. Unless of course, you prefer to take such decisions out of the hands of the people because you think you know what’s best for them. So starts the slippery slope towards authoritarianism…
Silvaire wrote:
What I think will happen if European countries persist with this inward looking 1984-style totalitarian nonsense
@Silvaire, I think Ive said this before, I agree with alot (even most?) of what you say, but this kind of comment is really does put many people off, so can you tone it down a little? It is especially ironic coming from a citizen of the one country that has NOT allowed foreign residents to enter the US since the beginning of the Pandemic, while at the same time allowing its own citizens unrestricted travel abroad…inward looking??
Regards, SD..
Double post – sorry!
The US has all kinds of issues with CV-19 regulation, but they have largely been held in check or localized by the restricted Federal role in our governance. Unfortunately that does not apply to control of US national borders, and it affects me too, to a degree – I had to get a CV-19 test overseas before returning home recently. Having said that I think 100% preflight testing makes more sense than fussing about with vaccination status… but starting in November the Feds want that too, for visitors!
The Feds will also want unvaccinated Americans to test after they return (as well as before flying) but God knows how they propose to police that, Americans will very properly blow that requirement off once they’re home and there won’t be much the Feds can do about it. State and local governments will not get involved in enforcement. A growing, not shrinking, example of Government overreach, produced by incompetent bureaucrats.
The situation in European countries with digital vaccination passes is regardless in my view exactly what you quoted from my earlier post. It is a completely wrong government invasion into people’s lives, a deeply worrying trend in governance for the region which also (as a minor but telling issue) provides no recognition of legally present non-residents including non-resident citizens (I am BTW a European citizen, as well as the US). My wife, a German citizen, is equally beside herself with distaste for what is happening to her own country, where she still owns property and therefore cannot reasonably abandon her citizenship. She did however extend her trip so as to be able to vote there the other day
Graham wrote:
In a democracy, it were ever thus.
Yes and you are right, there is no better system even if the results may hurt. I’ve been pointing out for our system often enough and I don’t doubt it. And no, these decisions can’t be taken away from the people.
I guess the result will show once again how seriously polls and news paper comments have to be taken. In recent votes, polls were quite accurate but the commentators usually represented a very vocal minority.
Another move forward announced for Swiss tourism
Meanwhile the Americans I mentioned above have now arrived in the Dolomites and report that the indoor dining protocol appears to be “ask about papers, when seeing customer reaching for them, that’s enough”. They don’t actually look at the document. I guess people don’t much like being forced to play policeman.
