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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion (politics go to the Off Topic / Politics thread)

johnh wrote:

France was not doing well with vaxx until Macron announced the ‘pass sanitaire’ – without which you can’t go to a restaurant, cafe or bar, fly or take a long-distance train, go to a shopping mall, or various other things. Suddenly lots of people had an “I remember now” moment and decided to get themselves vaxxed.

Dont forget the timing. This was announced a month before the start of the holidays. Virtually all of France holidays’ in July/August and would have booked family holidays as restrictions eased and how do you holiday without going out anywhere… stroke of genius by someone.

Regards, SD..

The question of how easy or otherwise these health passes are to use is philosophically irrelevant.

Personally I don’t give a **** about philosophy. I want to be able to go about my life as close as possible to what it was pre-covid, and with the lowest practical chance of catching it. I suspect 99% of people feel the same way. And I certainly give even less of a **** about what some abstract notion of “freedom” means or ought to mean.

LFMD, France

Graham wrote:

your statement is almost as though you consider freedom a bit of a bonus and not in any way fundamental?

No. I look at the health pass in the current situation as a very convenient tool to make sure that I am in an environment where only people exist who pose the least possible risk for myself, my family and each other. As the issuer, the government in this case provides the infrastructure and the tool for me to do so.

Without it, I would not visit any of the places that require it, so it actually gives me additional freedom. It also is my freedom to choose not to mix with people who don’t give a wet noodle what they do unto others and decide to impose their idea of freedom, namely not to vaccinate, onto the rest of us. The health pass more or less allows me to make that differentiation.

Looking at where we are going, those who so far have snubbed to be part of the solution rather than the problem have won out in the sense that it’s back to masks, back to social distancing and in some countries lockdowns. So their freedom has brought upon the rest of us that most of the freedoms won are gone again, health pass non-withstanding.

No, it is not the government who takes away my freedom in this case, it’s those whose egoism and pig-headedness have gotten us where we are today.

johnh wrote:

Personally I don’t give a **** about philosophy. I want to be able to go about my life as close as possible to what it was pre-covid, and with the lowest practical chance of catching it. I suspect 99% of people feel the same way. And I certainly give even less of a **** about what some abstract notion of “freedom” means or ought to mean.

Jup.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 01 Dec 12:37
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 01 Dec 14:41

The last two posts above Silvaire’s are just jaw-dropping. That’s called asking for tyranny.
Well, it is coming, you won’t be disappointed !

A more medical question : do we have any idea why these RNA “vaccines” are only working a few months while most traditional ones are valid 10+ years ?
I know someone who took a serology test and had zero antibodies 6 months after the 2nd shot.

Thanks.

LFOU, France

Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.

Indeed, but it is a mandatory personality trait in a European GA pilot. It is tested on the initial UK CAA Class 1. Quite expensive; it cost me 1.5k and I passed only marginally.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Lack of antibodies doesn’t mean lack of protection. AIUI, the T-cell and B-cell response is also very important in preventing serious disease, and the T-cell and B-cell response is fine in a double vaxxed person regardless of whether antibodies are found or not.

Andreas IOM

Mooney_Driver wrote:

So their freedom has brought upon the rest of us that most of the freedoms won are gone again, health pass non-withstanding.

@Mooney-Driver. Sorry but in all serious do you actually believe what you just posted? Why are we even discussing freedoms won, or lost. We live in a supposed free democracy. These freedoms have been removed by mostly unelected officials, all of differing views in extremis about how hard to make this viral pandemic..
There is a real and growing sense that these individuals, public servants paid by the public purse, are totally, financially and politically, untouchable, whilst the rest of us extremely hard working self employed are being screwed at every juncture. Who do these people think pay their wages? Where does the money tree live?

A revolution is brewing and I know which strange fruit we will be looking at.

And as if by magic 2 minutes ago…

It’s time for EU member states to consider making Covid vaccinations mandatory, says the European Commission president
Ursula von der Leyen says: “This needs a common approach, but it is a discussion that I think has to be led”

Where are the unvaxxed going. A train somewhere?

Last Edited by BeechBaby at 01 Dec 15:59
Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

Graham wrote:

I don’t believe that my freedom is something that only exists because the government permits it, but your statement is almost as though you consider freedom a bit of a bonus and not in any way fundamental?

First of all, at least I do have to accept the very fact, that my freedom only exists because the government enforces it. Without the government, there would be so many people out there which are stronger, smarter, better looking, etc. than me, that there was absolutely no freedom for me left. Anarchy is not freedom for all, but only freedom for very few…

Second thought is, what freedom is really about and where we start to feel en intrusion into our freedom:
- Some perceive it as intrusion into their personal freedom, if they need a license to fly a plane, some don’t
- Some perceive at as an intrusion if they must not walk around the streets naked, some don’t
- Some perceive it as an intrusion, if they are not allowed to drink alcohol in public, some don’t
- Some perceive it as an intrusion, if they are not allowed to make and consume cocain freely, some don’t
- Some perceive it as an intrusion, that they need to prove they are not spreading a deadly disease, some don’t

You could add to this list forever.
My observation is, that almost independent from where people live and hence which freedoms they have, they regard their current level of freedom as essential (and hence all people which don’t have it as oppressed), a bit more than they currently have as desirable and a lot more than they currently have as anarchistic.

Germany

Jujupilote wrote:

A more medical question : do we have any idea why these RNA “vaccines” are only working a few months while most traditional ones are valid 10+ years ?

Yes, we do – and the answer to your question has two components:

First: Your statement is incorrect!
“Traditional” vaccines (we call them “Vector Vaccines”) for Covid (e.g. J&J) show a decay in serum antibodies over time similar to mRNA-vaccines for Covid. Therefore the decay of serum antibodies has little to nothing to do with the vaccination mechanism, but is driven by the specifics of the virus.

Second:
It is actually not uncommon – specifically for Orthornavirae – that one or two vaccinations are not enough and you have to “booster” after some time: For Rubella, the booster is typically done after 5-6 years, for Polio, it is at about 6 months. For common Flu it would also be at about 6 months – but it doesn’t make sense to booster due to the fact that common flu is more a virus family than a virus and therefore you need a new vaccination against other members of that family anyways – but if next season or some years later the same variant comes back you also need a new vaccination against it.
The question why for some virae the time between vaccinations is longer and for some it is shorter is at least partly understood and has to do with the complexity of the virus structures – you can imagine it like “immune system can remember certain virus features better than others” – very similar to the mechanism why some diseases are “once in a lifetime” while others you can get multiple times…

Last Edited by Malibuflyer at 01 Dec 16:46
Germany
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