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Corona / Covid-19 Virus - General Discussion (politics go to the Off Topic / Politics thread)

No, it’s not. It’s the same sh*t, different wrapping, which is what all your points are about.

Resistance in WW2 times meant putting your life on the line for the sake of other people’s lives.

“Vaccine Resistance” in Covid times means not putting your life on the line for the sake of your own life.

Last Edited by T28 at 22 Jul 14:49
T28
Switzerland
It’s an (ill fated) act of totalitarianism without precedence in Europe since WW II.

Was the Stasi disbanded in early 1945? For some reason the word Yugoslavia also comes to mind.

What is happening in Europe now is a very slippery slope in my opinion, based on factors and views which are just barely under the surface after a relatively limited period since they last showed their ugly head.

In the US while we see much less tangible effect, we do see government led repression of those spreading “false messages”, a group that oddly enough aligns closely with the political opposition of those doing the repression. The propaganda justifying it is bizarrely similar to that of the postwar Eastern European totalitarian era.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 22 Jul 15:02

… and we Europeans should be indeed careful because we only know too well how the polio vaccine totalitarian decision worked out for us.

T28
Switzerland

Make sure to get that old Polio-era digital vaccine passport updated, and be prepared to show it again as you go about your daily life.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 22 Jul 15:17

LeSving wrote:

The reasons don’t matter, it’s the act of depriving large groups of people from their basic rights that is the wrong-doing here. It’s an (ill fated) act of totalitarianism without precedence in Europe since WW II.

First of all: The reasons do matter!

At any given point in time, a large group of people can not enjoy freedom of movement – we call them “prisoners” and the reason is not because they belong to a specific group but because they committed a crime
An even larger group does not enjoy the freedom of flying a plane – we call them “Non-Pilots” and the reason is not because they belong to that group but because they do not have a license.

Second:
We do restrict certain freedoms (e.g. to visits restaurants w/o vaccination) to people which belong to a certain group (of “Non-Vaxxers”) but because they are not vaccinated. That is an individual decision on an individual person based on its health status and behavior and has nothing to do with the question, if this person belongs to a certain group or not.

A basic right to set other people’s life at risk never existed and therefore it can not be a deprivation of such a right if you are not allowed to do this!

Germany

T28 wrote:

Resistance in WW2 times meant putting your life on the line for the sake of other people’s lives.

“Vaccine Resistance” in Covid times means not putting your life on the line for the sake of your own life.

Vaccine Resistance in Covid time means that you are not willing to take a comparatively small risk to protect other people AND yourself.

You know, if it was “just” the lifes of their own it would be regrettable but alone their choice. But it isn’t. It’s health and lifes of just about everyone they interact with and as such, refusal to do their share also will have a massive impact on societies capability to put this crisis beyond us and start rebuilding.

If vaccination refusal leads again to shut downs and restrictions, it will impact everyone. Those who did their share and those who did not.

If you will, the readiness in WW2 was to put your life on the line and pay the ultimate price for the good of others, for a common ideal. Today, we see people refusing to take a comparatively very small risk for the good of others. That is the difference.

Malibuflyer wrote:

A basic right to set other people’s life at risk never existed and therefore it can not be a deprivation of such a right if you are not allowed to do this!

A M E N!

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I know it’s popular amongst older generations to bash young people, as they always have done , but a cursory look at UK vaccination data shows that the vaccination rates for UK 18-24 year olds are currently only 5% below the national average of 70%.

This ties in with the fact that all of the people I know who are refusing the vaccine are all over 30.

I has my second vaccine today and almost everyone at the vaccine centre was around my age (mid twenties).

It seems that it’s people of all ages from BAME communities who are refusing the vaccines in large numbers.

But middle aged people love to blame everything on the young :)

Last Edited by IO390 at 22 Jul 16:50
United Kingdom

I think somebody who believes their life is significantly at risk from CV-19 after having taken individual action to be fully vaccinated is probably being obsessive. I also think that the tiny number of people who cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason should not choose to enter indoor restaurants etc right now regardless of a totalitarian vaccination ID requirement preventing them (or not) from entering. I have every confidence they can figure that out all on their own. The voluntarily unvaccinated are, and should be in free society, ‘on their own’ and happy for the opportunity to run their own lives.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 22 Jul 18:02

UK 18-24 year olds are currently only 5% below the national average of 70%.

I suspect that is because there is a sizeable standard deviation around that average, with some groups well above (e.g. I recall 65+ are 95% done) and other groups well below.

It seems that it’s people of all ages from BAME communities who are refusing the vaccines in large numbers.

Yes, and other “well defined” groups which most in the media won’t discuss. There is also a big north-south divide, which also manifests itself pretty dramatically in the hospital situation e.g. above.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

It seems quite clear from the present figures on the UK Zoe app that Vaccinated people with Covid have overtaken the unvaccinated people in the present wave. So I have two questions for the forum:-

1. The delta variant is clearly more transmissible as it has out competed the others. Could the lower hospitalisation be due to the fact that the Delta variant is a much less worse version of the Virus? I have seen experts assert this is the normal way a virus progresses. Perhaps it is the Delta variant saving the UK? Most people seem to be getting symptoms like a Cold these days, 8 months ago it was 3-4 days of flu sypmtoms.

2. Alternatively, if the above is not true, as we know that vaccinated people are equally likely (at present in the UK) to be carrying the virus, so perhaps they are more dangerous? This is because unvaccinated people are more likely to have symptoms and, as a result, they are more likely to stay at home then spread the virus?

Opinions please ?

Last Edited by Archer-181 at 22 Jul 19:06
United Kingdom
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