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Climate change

Mooney_Driver wrote:

, as the world as we know it is going to end…

Do you have any (scientific) evidence for that?

All what I see is that sea levels might rise by a meter (which is the same ballpark it has already risen since roman times). Yes, that might for sure change how many people in The Netherlands, Philippines, etc. live but very unlikely to be “the end of the world as we know it”. And btw.: We still have one generation to prepare for such a rise. Given that already today a very significant number of people technically live below sea level I’m quite confident that if we tried for many regions we would find a solution to accommodate.

Temperatures in some regions will rise significantly – even in regions where people live (one must not forget that the majority of increase of this magical “global average temperature” is driven by increases in polar regions and over the oceans and therefore have little direct impact on humans anyways).
This is a problem – esp. for the people living there. We will see more water and food challenges in some regions – and perhaps even some larger migration pressure (btw.: There is quite weak scientific evidence for this consequence as today most of the migration pressure in Europe is coming from regions which are not the hottest in Africa). In the last 20 years the advancements in food and water technology has outpaced climate change so that the nutrition challenge has been reduced (unfortunately still not eliminated) – why do we think this development will stop?

In the end much of the discussion boils down to a cost comparison between acting and not acting. While it is quite hard to find solid numbers of the actual cost of climate change, even pessimistic scenarios estimate them in the ballpark of 10% of GDP – by the end of the century. So the impact of climate change on the economic cost is actually smaller than we impact of longevity and medical advancements!

Again: I’m not at all saying that on balance avoiding climate change is not the better choice – just pointing out that accepting climate change is also not an impossible option and for sure not “the end of the world as we know it”.

Germany

The “Great and Good” at the COP26 have no problems with food and energy for their own use.
The Extinction Rebellion people do not seem to consider the effect of their proposed policies on survival NOW, not later. There is no media debate allowed.
The UK becoming Carbon Zero will have no effect on Global Climate if achieved by importing all manufactured goods from China, etc. (Except, obviously, for craft goods hand manufactured by “creative people”.)

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

I think in one of the earlier posts I was accused of not wanting to do anything. Quite the opposite. I would do something in proportion to the risk.

For example, I would have set a small carbon tax that steadily rose each year for 30 years. Everybody would know the trajectory of this tax and could plan ahead. This would allow people to make sensible economic decisions. They could run plant (boilers, factories, cars, PA28-181’s etc) until they needed replacement so it would not be economically disruptive. It would not waste the huge embedded energy in these devices

I would have introduced legislation years ago where consumer durables had to have a minimum expected lifespan of 10 years. It makes me sick to see washing machines for sale for £ 220 (USD 240). As soon as something goes wrong they are thrown out as not worth repairing (even the cheap range Bosch machines are not worth repairing after 6 years even if it is just the main bearings). In addition to energy labels I would have a predicted lifespan label. Anything that could last longer than 15 years would have not disposal taxes included in the purchase prices. Anything less would have a disposal tax depending on how bad the lifespan was. This might mean that the catches on washing machine doors change from plastic to metal once again!

I would concentrate on proper pollution. There are some parts of Italy and Sicily where there is rubbish dumped (fly tipped) in huge heaps at the side of the road and up and down motorways. The reason being that the local government makes it difficult to have your rubbish collected. They have taken all of the public dustbins away and lots of this ends up in the sea and spread out everywhere. This is in Europe not the third world

Let’s fix the easy things first and ramp up bit by bit. Then if new science realises that this is not an “Emergency” (it is 100% not an Emergency) then we have not wasted USD 11,500 of GDP each year.

At present the average American is willing to spend USD 24 on tackling Climate Change so sooner or later these idiot politicians like Joe Biden who took 5 Aircraft and 85 cars to COP26 will be voted out.

United Kingdom

Archer-181 wrote:

There are some parts of Italy and Sicily where there is rubbish dumped (fly tipped) in huge heaps at the side of the road and up and down motorways. The reason being that the local government makes it difficult to have your rubbish collected. They have taken all of the public dustbins away and lots of this ends up in the sea and spread out everywhere. This is in Europe not the third world

If you ask any farmer, there is a direct corrollation between the amount of fly-tipping and the ease or difficulty of using a council recycling/tip.
In France this week I just received a letter for the company charged with running the local recycling/tip.. “for an improved service to our customers” they are going to make people use an app for tip visits “to manage the amount of visits customers make”, which sound like limited use to me and I predict that we will suddenly get a bunch of stuff dumped in the surrounding areas…

Regards, SD..

From official Chinese News, today. I wish our Scottish and UK politicians occasionally mention the effects on the Scottish and UK non-celebrity humans.
“China’s coal supply shortage has eased significantly after a series of measures to ramp up coal production to ensure power supply and a warm winter for the Chinese people, according to the country’s top economic planner.”
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1238258.shtml

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

In the mainstream media here today. Greta is criticized for antidemocratic views and not coming up with solutions of her own Even by other activist by the looks of it.

Who cares anyway, but she is certainly no longer a media mascot she was 1-2 years ago.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

skydriller wrote:

they are going to make people use an app for tip visits “to manage the amount of visits customers make”,

Here in third world Scotland, 10 miles from COP26, we pay in our area the highest community charge, 258.00 per month. Our waste bins are collected once a month. We have to pay extra for our garden waste to be collected. I refuse to pay this so my garden waste does not get collected.The collectors pick and choose which bins are deemed, uncontaminated (collectable).

The local dump opens sporadically, you have to book online, and then the guy who runs it self isolates regularly. Complain or withhold your community charge and bailiffs will be at your door before you can say ‘kick the cat’.

This is the future folks, meanwhile just read that hundreds of expert consultants are being paid 2500.00 a day to assist failing government projects and councils

A truly dystopian fantasy pantomime…

Fly safe. I want this thing to land l...
EGPF Glasgow

In France each commune or commune grouping decides on rubbish collection.
We have been provide with black wheely bins, yellow wheely bins and a composter.
We use the composter for all garden and food waste.
The collection of the wheely bins alternates, one week blacks the next yellows.
The yellows are for recycled waste and we don’t pay for its collection (not as a charge by the waste collection company anyway)
Our annual fee for collection of the black bins (non recyclable household waste) is about €250 and that covers 6 collections in the year. (My wife manages to keep it within that, which surprised both of us).
Any more than 6 collections and you pay an extra for each collection.
Within the €250 we also have 10 visits to the local tip. We have a plastic card for entry. Any more than 10 visits and you are charged for those visits.
I was highly sceptical that 10 would be enough but this year I have only used it twice.
Like @skydriller we were convinced that this system would lead to massive fly tipping.
So far we have been proved wrong over the last three years since it came in, we have only seen isolated cases, probably no more than with the old system.

France

In Italy, apart from the Fly tipping, we are surrounded by a fog of burning plastic and domestic waste in the evenings, but hey, the Commune is happy as it is meeting recycling targets!

In Devon, UK, many years ago the EU gave grants to encourage recycling. The local council collected the waste in separate lorries and then dumped it all in landfill as the grant was only tied to waste collection not disposal.

Excuse me for being slightly cynical about these schemes

Last Edited by Archer-181 at 07 Nov 11:28
United Kingdom

gallois wrote:

People need to see results if they are to change their way of life especially when it can mean financial hardship. Not a promise of a better life, possibly, for future generations. That’s like saying be good and you’ll go to heaven, otherwise you’ll burn in hell.

They need to see results and they need to see what’s in it for them. Unfortunately, for many green/left politicians particularly the latter is a concept they don’t grasp.

Looking at the e-car boom, it is quite easy to see why so many try to switch. I’d wagger quite a few do because it is fashionable, some because their neighbour has one so they need one and quite a large share because they see the cost of “Fuel” and are lured by “free” refuelling in certain super markets and the illusion that energy prices are going to stay like this forever. Well, no, they won’t, there will at the very least be road tax on it as well as inflation due to higher demand.

There are other examples like solar installations for hot water and even electricity and other stuff which can really help getting down energy cost and at the same time do somewhat nice for the environment. In most of these, eventually there will be "something in it " for those who use it, particularly if oil prices continue to explode. But this also would include cutting red tape and possibly sponsorship.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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