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National CAA policies around Europe on busting pilots who bust controlled airspace (and danger areas)

I understand that infringements now apply to;

ATZs
TMAs
DAs
TDAs
CTRs
TMZs and RMZs

I am not sure where policy now stands on RAs and TRAs, purple airways and MATZ (which presumably are not included). It would seem the first two are included although th elegality of doing so is dubious, I am sure purple airways would be treated the same as any other airway, and MATZs are probably excluded so far as their stubs are concerned but not the central ATZ.

In essence just about everything and anything in red and throw in all the unexpected NOTAMS that pop up as well.

Last Edited by Fuji_Abound at 02 Sep 08:27

I’ve been following this thread more or less from the beginning, and it seems to me VFR cross country in the UK is nowadays a minefield, especially in the S. UK.

Does the UK still have that exemption from the minimal altitude in SERA? I.e., could you just fly everywhere just above the treetops, thus avoiding most airspace and radar?

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

MedEwok wrote:

Does the UK still have that exemption from the minimal altitude in SERA? I.e., could you just fly everywhere just above the treetops, thus avoiding most airspace and radar?

No, must maintain at least 500ft from any vehicle, vessel, building or person AFAIK.

EGTR

MedEwok wrote:

Does the UK still have that exemption from the minimal altitude in SERA? I.e., could you just fly everywhere just above the treetops, thus avoiding most airspace and radar?

Yes, 0ft above water & rocks & tree tops BUT as arj1 said not above vehicles, vessels, buildings or persons
Gliders are exempt when doing ridge soaring and people sitting on the hill (not sure about TMGs since I got a complaint once)

Last Edited by Ibra at 02 Sep 08:58
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Fuji_Abound wrote:

purple airways

You still have purple airways?

Is it such a good idea to tell the bad guys exactly where the Royal Personages are going to fly?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

The reply was (paraphrasing) “the transponder is very accurate”.

Bwahahahhaahaa! Hahahahah! I needed the laugh! :-)

Mode-C doesn’t even have any kind of integrity checking at all, no CRC, no checksum, and a resolution of only 100 feet. Mode-S is better (it does have a CRC) but it’s only as good as the encoder.

To be honest, I’d be very surprised if (at least for new Mode-S transponders) people aren’t quietly setting their output to 50 to 100 feet below actual, just as insurance against the bust em all policy. Very easy to do via the transponder’s front panel, and undetectable.

Last Edited by alioth at 02 Sep 09:47
Andreas IOM

You still have purple airways?
Is it such a good idea to tell the bad guys exactly where the Royal Personages are going to fly?

AFAIK abolished some years ago, for exactly the reason you give. It was a truly stupid idea all along, born out of the “ancient culture” of certain parts of the UK landed gentry (lovely photo there) and their armed forces association traditions

people aren’t quietly setting their output to 50 to 100 feet below actual

Does the GTX330 have this feature?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

alioth wrote:

Very easy to do via the transponder’s front panel, and undetectable.

Really? That’s not in the IM of the mode S transponder our aircraft has. (Trig TT31)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Peter wrote:

AFAIK abolished some years ago, for exactly the reason you give. It was a truly stupid idea all along, born out of the “ancient culture” of certain parts of the UK landed gentry (lovely photo there) and their armed forces association traditions

Comparing “purple airway” to “orange TFRs” either Trump does not care telling people “where he is on vacation” or he is not a “real king”

Although in the US, VFR can fly “orange TFRs”: file FPL and get ATC squawk & clearance, not sure what was the case for “pink airways”?

Last Edited by Ibra at 02 Sep 10:34
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I think you will find that US ATC will tell you about TFRs along your route. They have a joined-up ATC system.

Some years ago I was flying something like Shoreham-Wellesbourne, so past Farnborough etc. At 2300ft of course. This was before the new CAA busts policy; today I would not fly under the 2500ft LTMA; I would take the car, or fly way outside it. On this very rare occassion I forgot to check enroute notams. Farnborough asked me if I was aware of a TRA; I said I am sorry I forgot to check. I asked whether they could give me vectors; they said simply NO. As I as about to do a 180 and go back, they said I can avoid it by turning 270, but would not say how long for. After about 30 miles (!) they said I can go north again. Normally, Farnborough are pretty good but evidently you can’t rely on ATC helping you with TRA/DA/etc avoidance, and maybe this particular guy was making a point. You have to plan fully before departing, but that still doesn’t deal with something which has just popped up.

The US is a different example; they have great tools (like Foreflight, which has some way to go in Europe) and great enroute (airborne) data options. We will never have this in Europe.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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