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GRAMET (merged thread)

Mooney Driver

You ought to get yourself an IR, and a plane which can go to ~ FL200. Then you can use my "simple method" which is

  • check wx in terminal areas is OK
  • check forecast cloud tops enroute are below say FL150
  • on day of flight, check tafs, metars
  • check IR image shows no silly white stuff, and sferics picture is clean
  • GO.

I have not had one single "eventful" flight, doing the above. Despatch rate is perhaps 75%, for flights of 500-900nm. And I am very conservative when flying "official IFR".

You've seen my writeups. It's no rocket science.

The real debate starts when people want to fly through frontal wx.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

You ought to get yourself an IR, and a plane which can go to ~ FL200.

That really is the answer. My other half is doing her PPL and I'm finishing my IR in the TB10, then we'll look at upgrading to (almost certainly) a TB20 or TB21.

If I had to choose between TKS and a turbo I would have the TKS.

I agree. But I would still like to have both. Our priority list is:

  • TB20 or -21 (or a Cirrus, but it would have to be the perfect plane at a very good price)
  • Deicing
  • Up to date avionics that we don't need to replace
  • Turbo if the economics work out - I've seen a couple of aircraft with turbo engines in need of overhaul go for really low prices recently. I would be happier to buy a good airframe with a 0 value engine and pay for the O/H at a shop of my choosing than go with a mid-life engine I don't know anything about.

We'll see what's on the market around the middle of next year... with the perfectly serviceable TB10 we won't be in any rush to buy, so hopefully the right aeroplane will turn up.

EGEO

Yes, Peter, I know all that.

My aircraft can do FL170 and would in principle do, but upgrading it to IFR is prohibitively expensive, far in excess of hull value. And I'll have to wait for the IR (which I once had but which lapsed) until EASA comes out with the new one. I do neither have the time nor the money to do the "old" way.

Apart, today and yesterday would not even have worked IFR unless it is an aircraft with FL250 or higher capability due to the fact that BG is firing anti hail rockets at the first TCU they can see and promptly close the whole airspace. And there were a LOT of TCU's and CB's there today.

Trouble is, the upkeep of an IFR Airplane is significantly higher, and if I struggle now with a VFR plane, I personally think it is not worth it anymore. First of all, I can't upgrade because I'd have to sell my aircraft, which will probably fetch less than 1/3rd I invested in it. IFR certified planes will be very expensive because lots of them need massive avionic upgrades in order to stay IFR.

I am over 50 now, have a fight every time I get my medical and can be grounded anytime therefore. And frankly, what I have seen of the change in climate the last few years does not help either. We are fighting to even get 50 hrs per year onto the airplane now, because everybody has the same problem. I did a short check: 97.2% of all long term reservations since 2011 have been cancelled due to weather.

So I will take some distance from the latest severe disappointment and decide what to do. My gut feeling is to stop "playing" pilot and go back to airline flying. It is much less stressful and a LOT cheaper. Hell, I can fly Business Class for this money.

I did fly to Samedan and back yesterday and today, lovely, worked like a breeze. Yet, costs are prohibitive. Samedan now charges about £180 for landing and one night stop, Zürich £100 per landing and the aircraft time... makes a simply 40 minute trip an expense I can not really justify.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Samedan now charges about £180 for landing and one night stop, Zürich £100 per landing

It's not like you didn't know this before the flight, did you?

Nobody forced you to fly between the two most expensive airports in Switzerland, am I right?

Sion has as many mountains, and is a lot less hassle, for example. Same for Mauterndorf.

LSZK, Switzerland

Oh yes, I was aware of it. I go Samedan once a year for the purpose of attending an aviation event nearby. Therefore it is a flight with a clear purpose and I accept the costs that one time a year. The alternative, 10 hours train (both ways) or 8 hours car are not really very attractive either.

Zürich: I am based there. First of all because I live there, 3 mins away, 2ndly because at the time I bought the plane there was no place to be had anywhere around (some airports have 10 year waiting lists) and 3rd it is the only airport within 50 NM or so which has the facilities I want: Night flight, concrete all year runway, non schengen customs and (for later use) IFR. Yes, it is expensive but the alternatives are worse and not necessairly cheaper. Altenrhein has pretty heavy fees too and is 90 mins driving time, Bern 120 mins and also not MUCH cheaper.

Samedan, well, I simply mentioned the costs for the benefit of people here who might not know and get burnt.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I read somewhere one cannot fly to Samedan at all, without a Cannes-style pilot briefing.

Can't see the problem...

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I want: Night flight,

Well yeah theoretically, except there are no slots for Cat A aircraft in the evening, and besides it costs another fortune to keep the MFGZ handling agent awake after 7pm.

How many night flights did you do in the last couple of years? Given the personal (VFR) minima you cited in another thread, I suspect there haven't been many.

non schengen customs

This is slightly annoying. There are 2 countries in range, typically, namely England and Croatia. The latter should be solved soonish.

and (for later use) IFR

Nice to have, yes. But you can always (when insisting) use the LSZH ILS for cloud break and then scud run to a nearby GA field. Because even IFR equipped single engine you'd likely want a ceiling minimum of 1000', this is close to what's needed for scud running. I'm based at a nearby VFR only field, and that has bitten me during the last couple of years, let me count, exactly once. BTW this is why reasonable METAR's at LSZH are important to me, probably more important than if I'd just use their ILS to land there.

You seem to want a gold plated solution, which is fine, but then don't complain if it comes at a gold plated price.

LSZK, Switzerland

Peter, the problem lies in Ittigen (the home of FOCA) 8-)

Because someone crashed a Premier 1 Jet, all piston GA now has to do this Cannes style briefing 8-)

(ok, granted, there have been a few density altitude related crashes with piston aircraft as well)

LSZK, Switzerland

Peter,

yes, you need a briefing. There have been a few accidents in recent years, mostly with Biz Jets but also a few narrow escapes with flatlanders who don't know the meaning of the word Density Altitude. So the FOCA in their wisdom decided that a) you need a briefing and b) if you have not landed in Samedan within the last 24 months, you need a training flight with a rated instructor.

Last year, I did the intro combined with the visit and repeated the briefing this year (it's valid for 12 months only and then needs to be repeated). Takes about 30 minutes.

Tom,

How many night flights did you do in the last couple of years? Given the personal (VFR) minima you cited in another thread, I suspect there haven't been many.

I did my NIT extension (as I never had that before) last year, so did several of my pilots. Since, I have had 8 flights which landed after all the GA airports around close (8pm or after ss). And no, there are slots available for VFR between 1840-1945 and 2130-55 lt, and 2015-2045 for IFR. Not many but we always got them if we asked early enough ( 8am previous day is safest). Primarily in Wintertime, we have had several landings after night fall between 1840 and 1945.

I have no problem with flying at night, provided the wx minima are given.

Because even IFR equipped single engine you'd likely want a ceiling minimum of 1000', this is close to what's needed for scud running. I'm based at a nearby VFR only field, and that has bitten me during the last couple of years, let me count, exactly once. BTW this is why reasonable METAR's at LSZH are important to me, probably more important than if I'd just use their ILS to land there.

In order to do that in ZRH, you'd need a 1500 ft ceiling, otherwise VFR is not allowed in the CTR. And you are right, it is not really encouraged. Primarily because there are preciously few IFR slots so they want to really assign them for people who land in ZRH.

You seem to want a gold plated solution, which is fine, but then don't complain if it comes at a gold plated price.

As I said, ZRH is my choice for the reasons mentioned. I, like a lot of other people, did not at all appreciate the increase in landing fees there in 2012, but for now we can be happy to be still accepted there.

The airfield which is nearby and which would be suitable other than for IFR is Birrfeld. That, for me, means to drive about 45 mins to 2 hours depending on traffic plus it closes in the late afternoon in winter. Again, not interested if I have 3 huge runways straight in front of me.

Samedan and some other very expensive places is an other affair. I would never go their for pleasure but I will go there if I have a valid reason. In this case being there fast up and back was more important.

Mind, you should be aware of the fact that most of the IFR airports around are on the expensive side. Friedrichshafen, Altenrhein... both of them are not that much cheaper than ZRH if you calculate the way there and back.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Primarily because there are preciously few IFR slots so they want to really assign them for people who land in ZRH.

That's what they always claim. But appart from the 3 rush "hours" (which are actually slightly longer than an hour) early morning, noon, and in the evening, the place is completely deserted, I always worry my radio died.

This slot system is IMO a complete waste of time. It causes the airport to operate a lot below capacity under normal weather, and the slots don't help you under "difficult" weather. For example during easterly wind, ZRH is a great place to accumulate lots of block hours really cheaply (if you pay the aircraft by flight time). You'll be lucky if you get away with only an hour delay.

you'd need a 1500 ft ceiling

... and 5km visibility. It is remarkable how often visibility is only 4500m, even while the rest of switzerland is "VOK" - Honi soit qui mal y pense.

I used to be often at ZRH five to ten years ago, to clear customs, but nowadays it's increasingly become a shopping mall that for some historic accident still has those annoying airplanes.

LSZK, Switzerland
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