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Glider flying based on EASA PPL SEP

This is just a thought and I was about to send the question to the authorities in Germany but then it might be interesting for others. So I decided to post my question here.

Originally I started flying gliders and ever since I reactivated by PPL old memories come up. That is why I’m wondering what it might take – speaking about the legal requirements – to fly gliders as well.

I believe the glider license is now called the GLD class rating similar to the SEP class rating. Anyone has experience and knows what it takes to start flying gliders coming from EASA SEP?

Frequent travels around Europe

Well, I’m not sure if it applies, me living in Norway. We have not put into effect the EASA gliding rating yet (which makes it rather sure it does not apply, by anyway). I also started gliding several decades ago, then PPL and microlight. Last summer I did my first gliding solo in 32-33? years (can’t remember for sure atm) Anyway, it is not an automatic thing. It is performance based. I have to show I can land a glider within 20 meters, every time, show how to handle spins, thermals etc. So, it’s probably more important how many gliding hours you have, and how long it is since you did any gliding.

Kind of strange. In my previous gliding life, I only did winch. This time I only do aero tow (I’m also towing myself, that’s why I started gliding again). The aero tow bit was absolutely no problem at all for me, came automatically. Strangely what I really had to concentrate on was the approach and landing. Decades of motor landings, and my landings are “automatic” it seems. With a glider the approach is more shallow, then an extremely steep final, and it took some landings before I got that back again (it’s hard to concentrate on a thing and do it different than what is the “right” way I guess, even when I have done almost a 100 gliding landings before).

The theory is no problem, it’s only the gliding specific stuff, meteorology mostly that is required, and only an oral “test” is needed.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

For the Sailplane Pilots License you need 15h training, including minimum 10h with instructor and minimum 2 hours solo; 45 take offs and landings and a 50km solo cross country flight or a 100 km cross country flight with instructor. If you have a PPL, you can make an assessment flight and get a reduction of 7,5h – you still need 2h solo, 45 landings and the cross country flight.

If you want to get the LAPL (which is identical to the SPL, but does not include the rights to fly gliders commercially and is not an ICAO-License due to the LAPL medical), you can get a reduction of maximum 7 hours, but no more than 10% of your PIC-time. You still need the 2 hours solo, 45 landings and the cross country flight.

That’s what Part FCL tells us. I think it is very ambitious to become a glider pilot in just 7,5 hours flight time, and I don’t know anyone who accomplished it in that time. But then again, I don’t know many PPL pilots who do their gliders license anyway. But since you have had the license at one point, it should be no problem. You might be able to fly solo under supervision quite fast.

Plus, of course, the theoretical knowledge test. Although I have to admit, that I don’t know what topics you would be exempt from. That would require a phone call to the Landesluftfahrtbehörde. Questions are published at www.open-ppl.de, as you might know.
You probably know the list of gliding clubs in Germany? http://www.segelflug.de/karte/d_karte.html

Holm- und Rippenbruch!

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

Hi Stephan, you could also consider getting a TMG rating on your PPL. That takes just a couple of lessons and a checkride.

I guess this is another one of my ‘romantic flying dreams’ :-)

I thought about taking the family in the SR22 to eg. Spain and while the family does something else go glider flying or take one of them up in a two-seater like the ASK 21 that I remember from the 1980s.

Needs some more research and putting in a question to the authorities. What I know I won’t like is any kind of “verein”. The other part of the activities in a gliding club drove me away from it in the first place.

Frequent travels around Europe

mh has it. However, I would need to add is that the cross country (50 km solo or 100 km dual) needs to be done in a glider or a TMG. Any SEP cross countries you may have done, do not count.

AFAIK the EASA GPL and LAPL regulations come into effect latest in april 2015. They were released two or three years ago and became EU law almost immediately, but individual EU countries could file “derogations” to postpone the implementation. These derogations were possible until april 2015, so in effect they will be law EU-wide during this years gliding season.

And no, a target landing (or a series of target landings like we had here in NL) is no longer official part of the EASA syllabus, experience requirements or exam requirements. However, I’ve got the sneaky suspicion that countries who currently mandate a target landing requirement somehow, will keep on squeezing it into the syllabus somewhere.

Furthermore, traditionally the cross country was never part of any gliders license. In fact, in the Netherlands you were only allowed to start training for cross country flying once you had the GPL. I’ve spoken to some instructors and they are very, very reluctant to send their students solo on a cross country before they’ve obtained the GPL. So it looks like the only way you are going to be able to fulfill the cross-country requirement, at least in the short term, is to do it in a TMG, dual. That’s the only way the instructors currently feel comfortable with.

TMG rating sounds very interesting. That is probably a route I should look into further. And those motor gliders can probably be rented from a commercial outfit. Can they?

The main reason for my question is about being able to enjoy gliding without all the other things attached to it.

Last Edited by Stephan_Schwab at 25 Jan 15:48
Frequent travels around Europe

TMG’s like the Scheibe Falke 25, Grob G109 or the Diamond Super Dimona are cheap to rent and they should be available in your area.
I have both a TMG and a SEP rating, and the TMG rating is automatically extended when the SEP checkride is done (or vice versa).

There are some real advanced TMG’s like the Stemme S10 which has a maximum glide ratio of 50.

mh
Aufwind GmbH
EKPB, Germany

Stephan, did you get glider rating in your previous life or no? you mention you started on gliders. The current rule should be that if your rating is expired for less than 5 years you can renew it on competency basis, so your instructor will decide. If more than 5 year you need to pass theory – but not in case you have PPL-SEP current. Mine is <5 and I am planning /and hoping/ to renew it and get a new SPL for both GLD and TMG – which has unlimited validity, not 2 years like SEP. But one must keep flying to keep it alive. The good news is that 5 necessary hours to keep TMG alive can be done in SEP. so by flying SEP you keep your TMG valid.

LKKU, LKTB
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