Hello everyone, I am looking into getting a PPL in Europe and trying to do as much research as possible first, including what’s possible once you actually have your PPL. If my flying ambitions are naive or not achievable, then I would prefer to know now 
Strangely enough, this “big picture” information has been hard to find, hence my post here.
I’m hoping to fly small aircraft (2-6 seat SEPs) for leisure, mainly around southern Italy but perhaps nearby countries too. I’m mostly interested in local flights though as a way to get to remote and interesting locations for day trips. (For example, driving from one side of Sicily to the other can take 4 hours but would be just 1 hour in a small plane at 125 knots.) I find the US bush plane/STOL scene very appealing but I am struggling to find information about this in Europe. Is it possible in Italy/Europe or is it too difficult to find places to land (legally)? What about empty remote roads or beaches?
If the bush plane experience doesn’t work, I assume that an amphibious plane with retractable landing gear like the Seamax would solve that issue by allowing free coastal access mixed with paved/grass airfields? (I’m aware of the extra rating requirement.) Other than avoiding designated swimming areas and boats, are there generally any other restrictions in terms of where to land a sea plane?
With private flights of small aircraft like these, and assuming VFR only, is there generally a need to file flight plans or are you free to fly whenever conditions allow? If flight plans are required, how far in advance? Does this depend on whether a commercial airport is involved or does it apply equally to private grass airfields? How do you even file a flight plan if you are planning to land in the sea rather than an airport? Could I simply buy a piece of cheap land somewhere and clear my own strip? This would seem to avoid hangar costs, landing fees and passing through commercial airports.
I understand that once you have an active EASA PPL, you can quite easily get an FAA PPL piggy-backed on the EASA license, which should allow for some flying adventure in the US at some point.
Hi and welcome to EuroGA. You came to the right place :)
I’m hoping to fly small aircraft (2-6 seat SEPs) for leisure, mainly around southern Italy but perhaps nearby countries too.
That is absolutely possible. Italy and the surrounding countries offer very beautiful flying opportunities. Landing on the grass piste next to venice LIPV is one my favourite GA activities.
Some restrictions are
1) „larger“ airports that are not efficient for GA (eg no avgas, hassle with handling, delay when fueling or paying fees etc..
2) again limited avgas availability (jet a is fine, but when the tanker trucks is fueling up some commercial jet they’ll make you wait)
3) as always with SEPs as a form of „scheduled“ transport is dependability on weather.
2-6 seats is a huge range in the sep world.
From 2 seat basico UL to 6 seater with all bells and whistles. Cruising at 125kts is a starting point though that will rule out a lot of contenders ;)
I’m mostly interested in local flights though as a way to get to remote and interesting locations for day trips. (For example, driving from one side of Sicily to the other can take 4 hours but would be just 1 hour in a small plane at 125 knots.) I find the US bush plane/STOL scene very appealing but I am struggling to find information about this in Europe. Is it possible in Italy/Europe or is it too difficult to find places to land (legally)? What about empty remote roads or beaches?
Someone else will know if landing somewhere is easily possible in Italy eg by only needing the land owners consent?!
Italy offers a myriad of private little grass strips called „aviosuperficiale“ and „campo di volo“ (the latter „officially“ only for UL). These grass/dirt strips are almost everywhere so I’d say they must be pretty easy and cheap to set up if you own some land. Preparing a field and the subsequent upkeep to maintain a suitable landing strip will depend on where you are, what kind of soil etc… Compared to a hangar spot at some larger airport it can be cheaper. Compared to a hangar at a grass field, probably not. I’d check the Avioportalone https://www.avioportolano.it/it/ for an existing strip near to you and maybe you can base your plane there?
If the bush plane experience doesn’t work, I assume that an amphibious plane with retractable landing gear like the Seamax would solve that issue by allowing free coastal access mixed with paved/grass airfields? (I’m aware of the extra rating requirement.) Other than avoiding designated swimming areas and boats, are there generally any other restrictions in terms of where to land a sea plane?
Your bush plane idea should work in italy. Lots of ICP Savannahs (STOL/UL/experimental) or bigger SEPs are flying happily outside of any controlled airspace and airfields from grass strip to grass strip.
I don’t have a seaplane rating and while I love boats and planes I don’t think a float plane would be very feasible, it’s not like you can land these anywhere irrespective of sea state/swell. The Icon A5 was marketed in that direction and has a pretty bad rep after some high profile crashes. But what do I know, maybe it’s a cool idea to pursue. Somebody more knowledgeable on seaplanes will hopefully correct me if necessary.
With private flights of small aircraft like these, and assuming VFR only, is there generally a need to file flight plans or are you free to fly whenever conditions allow?
No flight plans are required when you fly outside controlled airspace (i.e. not from/to any controlled airports with a control zone). For border crossings it depends. Some countries have agreements and no flight plan is required. Filing a flightplan helps for search and rescue and with mobile internet is done within seconds if you desire to submit one. For border crossings it’s good to give a bit of lead time (some countries require one hour).
I understand that once you have an active EASA PPL, you can quite easily get an FAA PPL piggy-backed on the EASA license, which should allow for some flying adventure in the US at some point.
Correct. A faa piggy back license can be done in one afternoon.
Actually you don’t need a flight plan as soon as you don’t cross a border or a sea, but as per EASA rules, you should always file one.
FL300 wrote:
I find the US bush plane/STOL scene very appealing but I am struggling to find information about this in Europe. Is it possible in Italy/Europe or is it too difficult to find places to land (legally)? What about empty remote roads or beaches?
It varies widely between countries in Europe. In Sweden, you can basically land anywhere you want as long as you’re not being a nuisance. (Legally speaking, what is socially acceptable is another matter.) In Germany, you can’t land anywhere except at airports — not even helicopters without a permit IIRC.
Thanks for the very helpful replies.
The flight plan rules are more complicated but I have just a phone.
Ciao,
Come to Hungary for PPL or if you have it already, come for time building. In my school at the Airwin Aviator School you can learn safely and professionally. We have almost brand new AT3 aircraft with Garmin 500 Txi flight deck. Nice area to look around fly around. Look around here: www.airwin.hu
Zsolt
Here is a thread on when flight plans are not required in Europe.
Thanks, I found a reference to SERA.4001 in that thread which helped to clarify the situation.
A flight plan shall be submitted prior to operating:
(1) any flight or portion thereof to be provided with air traffic control service;
(2) any IFR flight within advisory airspace;
(3) any flight within or into areas, or along routes designated by the competent authority, to facilitate the provision of flight information, alerting and search and rescue services;
(4) any flight within or into areas or along routes designated by the competent authority, to facilitate coordination with appropriate military units or with air traffic services units in adjacent States in order to avoid the possible need for interception for the purpose of identification;
(5) any flight across international borders, unless otherwise prescribed by the States concerned;
(6) any flight planned to operate at night, if leaving the vicinity of an aerodrome.
