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UK GAR form discussion, and UK border police procedures

Yes.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

threatening 10000 GBP worth of fines

Is it just me or do UK authorities have a thing about threatening people into compliance? Whenever you come to a UK airport (as commercial pax) you see lots of notices about how abuse of staff is not tolerated, how doing this and that would give you some punishment. I can’t say I’ve seen that in other countries.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

It is a European way actually; Germany has loads of €50,000 fines stated e.g. for a CAS infringement. Example.

The UK, along with a number of other countries, has a problem with airline passengers getting drunk before they get on the plane, and causing trouble

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

It is a European way actually; Germany has loads of €50,000 fines stated e.g. for a CAS infringement.

I’m not referring to the existence of administrative fines. Of course you find that everywhere. I’m referring to the habit of aggressively advertising them.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Try going to Paddington tube station. Last time I was there, there was a member of staff, yelling into a megaphone that “people should buy their tickets from one of the machines or the ticket booth. Buying tickets from anyone else is a serious offence:”
He sounded really angry and officious.
The ticket buying area was jam packed with people.Most were tourists. It wasn’t very welcoming.

France

@gallois most Tube staff is actually known for being very funny. You were unlucky, I guess.

There will be displays of power everywhere. You won’t easily see a fully armed to the teeth police officer as you see in France for example.

In Portugal, where I’m from, a driver is stopped on average once a year by the police. I’ve been in the UK for 17 years and never happened to me.

Last Edited by Fernando at 01 Jun 08:53
EGSU, United Kingdom

In London you now pay contactless I can travel around the trains and the underground and never buy a ticket. It’s quite amazing.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Is it just me or do UK authorities have a thing about threatening people into compliance?

A_A has a point, in that warnings in the UK or US are much more likely to include a penalty than in Europe. E.g. ”No smoking – maximum fine £500” would be ”Smoking forbidden – law 1234 of 2001 applies” in France.

Listing and quantifying the consequences must make the sign more effective, as the viewer stops to consider the inconvenience of non-compliance, on a more rational level than red=danger. Classic deterrence: likelihood of being caught multiplied by severity of punishment. It is a valid point that over-use decreases effectiveness.

I routinely disregard ‘no entry’ type signs if I don’t agree with them. I like to think of it as a capability for independent thought. A better solution is diversion, e.g.: ”Smoking area this way →”.

The ‘zero tolerance to abuse’ signs at immigration are odd, as the function of Border Force is to prevent undesirables from entering the country, forcefully if necessary. Are they not trained to deal with it?

Edit: looking up the function of Border Force, they do more than just immigration: customs, intelligence, counter-terrorism, and coastal patrols.

Last Edited by Capitaine at 01 Jun 20:50
EGHO-LFQF-KCLW, United Kingdom

My experience of BF employees is that these are the people who love the GAR form for delivering bread on the table at home, and truly believe that Osama BL is going to fill in a GAR form with “terrorist” in the “occupation” column and with “blow up all imperialists” in the “purpose of the trip” column.

The signs about staff abuse are everywhere in the UK. It may be a fashion which started where staff is truly vulnerable (e.g. railway station workers at night) and then expanded to lots of places; anywhere where customers might not be happy with the service.

In the UK, “border control” has been a political hot potato since before brexit. Mainland Europe doesn’t have it because, de-facto for centuries, and de-jure since schengen, there are no borders to control.

I think the UK GAR system is brilliant. Brits moan about it but it makes almost every runway in the UK have customs and immigration!

I have updated my aviation page with the latest stuff on GAR filing (removing the .xls options etc) and uploaded the latest “Guernsey GAR” which is used for Alderney also. The form has changed very little but Guernsey refused to accept the previous one recently, even though none of these are machine-readable

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

NCU email is the backup method when SGAR is down (today 3/6/24)

The Submit a General Aviation Report (GAR) service is currently unavailable.
This is due to a planned outage. The service will be unavailable between Monday 03 June 2024 11:00 UTC and Monday 03 June 2024 23:00 UTC, but available thereafter.

During this period GARs cannot be submitted using the s-GAR online web service.

If you are required to submit a GAR during this period, please download and complete the required GAR form found on General aviation operators and pilots notification of flights – GOV.UK (www.gov.uk).

GAR forms should be submitted directly to the National Co-Ordination Unit (NCU) at [email protected]. GARs must only be submitted to this email address during the period of the outage.

We apologise for any inconvenience

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Jun 12:30
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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