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Temporary Schengen "suspension" around Europe

Quoting myself:

So let‘s collect more pireps here, i.e.:

- cases where flightplans were rejected due to some airfield allegedly not being able to receive a specific international flight, or where such arrival led to „trouble“ afterwards
bq. – (France-specific): cases where pilots flew to PPF airfields on international (inner-Schengen) flights without giving any PN and where this led to some „problem“

No further reports. Three possible reasons:

  • despite many French airports calling for PN for these intra-Schengen flights now, they don‘t care if you don‘t actually do it
  • everybody nowadays complies with these stupid PN requirements (unlikely)
  • people don‘t like to talk about the lecture/treatment they got for not having given the PN
Last Edited by boscomantico at 01 May 08:04
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

I came across this notice of widespread “Temporary Introduction of Border Control”, interruption of control-free travel by Schengen countries this year:
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/policies/schengen-borders-and-visa/schengen-area/temporary-reintroduction-border-control_en

This affects France, Estonia, Norway, Austria, Germany, Sweden and Denmark on various grounds, Covid, terrorism etc. (q.v.).
Puzzling indeed is one of the Swedish grounds, “shortcomings at the external borders”. Hmmm, who’s responsible for that?

The document makes it clear that applying intra-Schegen border controls should be a “last resort”, yet now it seems there is widespread use of this loophole. Maybe Schengen as we knew it is doomed …..

Bluebeard
EIKH, Ireland

Pratically speaking, it is not. That weird list (in similar length) has existed for years….

What is important for private flyers is not so much whether your passport may get checked upon arrival in a different country. What is important is that one is still free to use any aerodrome one likes (which is the case) and that one isn’t required to send prior notices of all international flights within Schengen (which only certain French airports demand, but all the other countries don’t). So, flying within Schengen, even between the countries listed above, is still so much easier than making extra-Schengen flights.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

A summary by a French pilot. (The guy, stiff as a poker, is hard to bear, but at least he is one of few French pilots with an understanding of international flying).



Last Edited by boscomantico at 21 May 12:15
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

He understands is because a) he is not at all French and b) he was on EuroGA for years, until he was banned (~4 years ago) for increasingly offensive posting… a long story and I still don’t understand why it came to that. I knew him personally (as a flying friend) and for sure he understood how this stuff works.

The video lays out how schengen works but it doesn’t explain the crazy stuff like the La Rochelle 48hr PN for all foreign flights regardless of schengen.

Video explanation:

I guess he didn’t check notams?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Was there a NOTAMS for Dijon saying 24h PNR on the day of that trip? what I understand that the NOTAMS appeared one month after (Sep21) after the fine was billed (Aug21)

Has been any AOPA communication on this?

FOR ALL FLIGHTS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE SCHENGEN : CUSTOMS MANDATORY TO OPERATIONS.DIJON(AT)EDEIS.COM. 20 SEP 12:13 2021 UNTIL 31 DEC 23:59 2021.

The NOTAMS is still around from Jan22-Dec22, if anyone has a doubt, bizzarly it does not say all international flights? I assume it also include national flights from France to France? since it applies to all flight inside Schengen and France is in Schengen? although not sure anymore with France being on temporary Schengen suspension, “heureusement que le ridicule ne tue pas”….

Last Edited by Ibra at 21 May 20:52
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I thought he explained a difficult subject well.
In the case of the Dutch pilot I noticed he said that he flew to Dijon without PN and without FPL.
If he isn’t French, he certainly says many syllables in the way a French person would, so Inwould imagine he speaks the language quite well.

France

He should know the topic exactly right – was “one of us here for years” – plus he lives in France.

he flew to Dijon without PN and without FPL.

In that case one would get into trouble more or less everywhere, so I wonder what the fuss was about. OK; lots of pilots don’t check notams, and some think within schengen you don’t need a flight plan (the concessions are actually very few).

Reading that NL AOPA text, they seem to be asserting that France has no right to require PN etc because it breaches schengen. So possibly the pilot’s non-PN flight was done knowingly. Well, that’s correct but France is a sovereign country and within its borders it can do what it likes If Brussels doesn’t like it, and feels it breaches EU law, they can take action, but frankly there are bigger fish to fry in the world right now.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In the case of the Dutch pilot I noticed he said that he flew to Dijon without PN and without FPL

He did not request PNR, he filed FPL though and used FPL to request PNR (if you look in the details that is how one does it in Netherlands, he actually requested PN with FPL as that is likely how he was taught to do it in his neck of the woods, it’s good to put yourself in other pilots shoes to “learn from their mistakes”, I am sure the guy did like he was used to do or how it works in his country, just like British pilots asking for phone PPR at LeTouquet or emailing UK GAR forms elsewhere, so far no one got fined for none compliance with the PN format in France same like French pilots talking to London SIV and driving through every piece of danger areas or controlled airspace with 1177 on transponder, so far no one got fined or lost his licence although NATS/CAA asks them to file MOR )

https://www.aopa.nl/index.php?page=1452

Just on a side note Dutch pilots use FPL for PNR, see Dutch AIP1.2-1.3, although 90% of airports will ask for proper PN (email & phone) and 99% customs will fine you for doing so if they don’t get FPL, plus you need to get GENDEC printed (not ICAO health form or C155, the immigration form with pic & pax passport details) and request customs in RMK section item 18 of FPL, Belgium does the same as well, so not surprising why the pilot did what he did, that is the only thing he knows…


French law is rather clear “préavis” is distinct from “flight plan” but keep in mind if one is going to other countries, he may have to use FPL & email

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 May 06:36
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

I haven’t read all that stuff (no time) but

used FPL to request PNR (if you look in the details that is how one does it in Netherlands, he actually requested PN with FPL as that is likely how he was taught to do it in his neck of the woods

has never worked anywhere except a few special airports like Prague LKPR (which has H24 handling which operates “intelligently” and it jolly well should given how much they charge). So why would any pilot be taught that? Are pilots taught in the NL that filing a flight plan is PN/PPR compliance? That’s bizzare!

Done here before. Due to job demarcation / union rules / etc the person receiving the flight plan will not walk along the corridor and advise the police/customs, and even if he did, the police (who in France generally have no interest in the airport function, and waste no opportunity in letting the whole world know this) will tell him to get stuffed; in any case the FP doesn’t contain the names, passport numbers, etc which France is requesting in these “breach of schengen” airports. The police “flying squads” operate on an “intelligence based” principle and they travel to airports where a potentially dodgy person might be arriving. It’s like in the UK you will prob100 get the full police treatment (in the days before they made it ~100% like today) if you had an Irish national on board.

There is a huge hill to climb in post-PPL pilot education, but most pilots never fly outside their own country so the situation can carry on for a long time.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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