LFHNflightstudent wrote:
It is not linked to the Terrorism law (and BTW no single country can suspend Schengen – countries can however WITH prior notification and for a period of MAX 6 months reinstall temporary border controls) but to COVID events, duly notified to the EC and EU parliament.
In the document which I posted above (again), you can read:
314 France 01/11/2021 – 30/04/2022
Continuous terrorist threat, secondary movements,
Coronavirus COVID-19; all internal borders
The way to protest a systematic discrimination by means of transport will not be by grumbling to or arguing with the individual officers doing these checks (although I do ask them each time if the check is also required for intra Schengen movements, which usually elicits a shrug). They are just following some orders of either their brigade or the préfet. What we would need would be a strong European pilots’ association that cared about bringing these issues to the attention of EU officials. Because locally, the more you harrass “strangers” at your “border”, the more votes you will usually get, because that is a small minority and they’re not voting in your precinct anyway.
The really exasperating thing about all this confusion of French requirements is that there is no reliable database of what each airport actually requires. The AIP entries for both Tarbes and Bergerac are typical, inaccurately worded and arguably misleading, nor were there Notams shedding light on the real requirements. Our selection of Bergerac as a stop on the way from Sabadell back to Ireland was a rather random one, motivated more by gastronomic prospects and price of filling up with avgas; but had I known it was in principle a “PN 24 hour” requirement even intra-Schengen (or mid-Friday notice if it had been a weekend flight) I would never have contacted Bergerac to enquire. When in ignorance of this I did phone Bergerac to check, I was told the 24-hour aspect of the PN requirement was not actually a requirement – “pas de problème” she said, pleasantly.
Our stopover in Bergerac was chosen after first phoning Nantes, where AIP shows no PN for customs, but I had been informed overnight parking there is impossible.
I can possibly understand securocrats and immigration authorities dislike the whole Schengen concept – immigration is a hot political issue especially in France – but systematic customs checks within the EU customs union seem ultra vires even with the douaniers wearing two hats.
Then there is an EU ESTA-type system coming down the tracks, probably to be used by bureaucrats to knock another nail in the coffin of our freedoms. Perhaps populations little by little acquiescing in generalised surveillance à la manière chinoise could perversely lead to less need for in-person checks as the authorities would already know everything relevant about our personal movements etc …….
This is the same thing in Cannes, Although intra schengen, airport policy managed by private company requires to pass by the terminal to fulfill checks, mostly ID paper and passenger registry, and it started much before Covid time. 2 years ago I flew from Cannes to Padova with wife and child, the security of the apron gate refused to let us pass. I could have gone by either one of the other gates I was cleared to but decided this day that I could reach that plane faster through it, and it was a dissapointment because I had to postpone my FPL, luckily VFR).
Every local pilot here who is going abroad from Cannes are just telling the main security they are doing local flight, because security guard doesn’t check anything or even note the pilot name. And they all told me to do that to not getting bothered, as long as it’s intra-schengen, we don’t break any rule except the airport manager company.
People from the main Cannes ATO is flying around all south Europe for IFR training, and they are free to do it from their gate, but there is a message clearly stating that taking passenger abroad is forbidden – but everyone does it… And same thing for the club on the base, pilots taking a club plane for a Pizza in Albenga doesn’t go by the terminal, and they are not worried.
This is a stupid comedy in order to show rich people that airport manager is really ruling the thing, but at the end, most of the boarding passengers doesn’t even put their luggage into the Xray mat… They just bring their not checked luggages.
Im pretty sure that these are local airport requirements brought in as a result of “Shengen Suspension” due to Terrorism & Covid. I have regularly travelled commercially since the summer and every time I have connected or flown to an EU country I have had to pass through “Les Douaniers” controls at my home regional airport, this is due to France suspending Shengen. If you want to go through the other “Shengen” thread, I remember I posted about this in 2018-19. I cant remember if the checks stopped pre-Covid ’cause it was so long ago now.
I have flown GA intra-EU in the last year, and used small aerodromes – the only check was by the Flugleiter that we had the right Covid Tests/Passes etc.
Regards, SD..
The advantage of being British is that one expects to be pulled the whole time so for us it’s business as usual. I.e. we are the pariahs.
On a separate note, as one who studies geopolitical events relatively intensively, this whole migration of people hasn’t even got going yet. This isn’t temporary, no government will have the balls to stop it, and I expect it to be one of the major destabilising movements in the next twenty years. Putin has only just started on weaponising it. Barely a nibble.
Bluebeard wrote:
but systematic customs checks within the EU customs union seem ultra vires even with the douaniers wearing two hats.
Customs checks and the EU customs union are actually two different things.
The EU customs union allows free travel of goods between customs union countries. For us as pilots, those rules (should) apply wrt customs notification requirements when landing/departing at a given airfield. That is, under normal circumstances (and these are not normal times) there should be no customs notification requirement when flying between EU customs union countries.
On the other hand, customs officers in many countries have more power than the police and can stop and check you anywhere they feel fit. An airfield is in that sense a place just like any other. In the cast of France, I’m quite sure that customs can stop anyone anywhere, for example when just driving down a country road somewhere in the middle of France. Customs control activities are not just limited to country borders.
Peter wrote:
I find it hard to “get” this while at the same time the EU is doing this.Because this topic is about (temporary) suspension of Schengen (free travel of persons) and the new EU rule is about customs (travel of goods). It’s always important to keep both things separated. I guess France is just afraid of “secondary movements” i.e. terrorists, asylum seekers, and currently people without covid-vaccine or recovery. But France seems to have zero issues with the free movement of goods on intra-EU flights.
On the other hand, customs officers in many countries have more power than the police and can stop and check you anywhere they feel fit.Within the EU, customs are only allowed to check you without reason within 30 km distance from the border, yet airfields (and seaports) are of course also a border-crossing point, so they are allowed to check you there. Nonetheless, it’s very true that customs officers have way more powers, and as said before, they don’t need any reason to detain you, even when you have the best lawyer at your side. The police is way less powerful.
Frans wrote:
Because this topic is about (temporary) suspension of Schengen (free travel of persons) and the new EU rule is about customs (travel of goods)
That is indeed the name fo the Thread, but again. It is WRONG and is simply false information that should be fact checked. Schengen is not suspended, not temporary not permanent. Some states have temporary (and that should be kept a close eye on as the French have extended 4 times so far…) re-introduced border controls. This is allowed AS A LAST RESORT under the wider Schengen Agreement.
Other KEY components of Schengen (The Schengen Agreement) are the following :
1) Free visa less travel for Citizens of the Schengen Area (not suspended and there is no prevision for this)
2) A Schengen Visa (what will come into force for Citizens of the UK through the European ESTA scheme soon) allows for up to 90 days stay every 6 months within the ENTIRE Schengen Area – this is not currently suspended (though it can be)
3) Passport Free travel within the Schengen Area – again this is not suspended (there is no provision for this either)
4) No internal border controls – some countries have temporarily re-introduce these – below is the provision for that in the agreement
The Schengen Borders Code (SBC) provides Member States with the capability of temporarily reintroducing border control at the internal borders in the event of a serious threat to public policy or internal security.
The reintroduction of border control at the internal borders must be applied as a last resort measure, in exceptional situations, and must respect the principle of proportionality.
The duration of such a temporary reintroduction of border control at the internal borders is limited in time, depending on the legal basis invoked by the Member State introducing such border control.
The scope and duration of reintroduced border control should be restricted to the bare minimum needed to respond to the threat in question. Reintroducing border control at the internal border should only be used as a measure of last resort.
The reintroduction of border control is a prerogative of the Member States. The Commission may issue an opinion regarding the necessity of the measure and its proportionality but cannot veto a Member State’s decision to reintroduce border control.
For foreseeable events (e.g. sports events), the duration of the border control is limited to 30 days or for the foreseeable duration of the threat, if it exceeds 30 days.
If required, the reintroduction of border control can be prolonged for renewable periods of up to 30 days. The total period shall not exceed 6 months.
The Member State shall notify the Commission and other Member States at least 4 weeks before the planned reintroduction of border control. An exception of this notification period is made, if the circumstances giving rise to reintroduced border control become known at a shorter notice.
Anybody posting Schengen is suspended is just talking BS
And apologies these other elements are equally part of the agreement and are equally not suspended
- harmonising provisions relating to entry into and short stays in the Schengen area by non-EU citizens (uniform Schengen visa),
- asylum matters (determining in which member state an application for asylum may be submitted),
- measures to combat cross-border drugs-related crime,
- police cooperation, and
- cooperation among Schengen states on judicial matters.
All part of the Treaty
That is indeed the name fo the Thread, but again. It is WRONG and is simply false information that should be fact checked. Schengen is not suspended, not temporary not permanent.
I changed the title to put suspension in quotes.
Anybody posting Schengen is suspended is just talking BS
I “get your drift” but to use the old saying if something walks like a duck and smells like a duck and sounds like a duck, it is a duck 
Of course there is a huge amount of symbolism in all the European “union” project and this symbolism is as sacred as the virgin Mary giving birth So e.g. Greece signed Schengen but totally ignores it (for all practical purposes – the only way to use it (have to not involve a “vehicle”) would be to walk from Corfu to Italy, which is a bloody long way; not even Moses (?) could do that) – but Brussels will do nothing about it because – despite Greece’s near-bankrupcy and subsequent “interesting actions” by N Europe (best time to kick a man is when he’s down) they cannot risk Greece jumping off the train. And there is absolutely no way France will get off the train, either. But everything just short of actually jumping is “ok”.
