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EASA Basic IR (BIR)

Thanks a lot for making it clear.

( I still think it’s a good next step for me, by the way, for all the other reasons )

Last Edited by hmng at 12 Jul 19:57
EHLE, Netherlands

hmng wrote:

Thanks a lot for making it clear.

( I still think it’s a good next step for me, by the way, for all the other reasons )

and for me as well, although I can’t use it…

Thanks bookworm!

EGTR

Rights, so after a few corrections from bookworm, new list of benefits! :)

1. There IS a difference in training theory and there is a more substantial difference in exam theory. Plus there is no classroom time.
2. Easier revalidation.
3. No 50hr PIC XC before the start of the course.
4. You could do everything with any instructor and then only come to ATO for the assessment and the test.
5. … Or you could fly in the sim with an instructor most of the time, then a few hours transition in the plane and then to ATO.
6. You could upgrade to CB/IR after you’ve flown for year PIC IFR XC without that classroom time.

EGTR

arj1 wrote:

2. Easier revalidation.

That is the main attraction for me (even less than IMCr)

arj1 wrote:

4. You could do everything with any instructor and then only come to ATO for the assessment and the test.
5. … Or you could fly in the sim with an instructor most of the time, then a few hours transition in the plane and then to ATO.

As far as I know, the typical commercial ATO have zero interest in that setup (but could be something for the few ATOs who do the load of FAA IR to EASA IR conversions or CBIR in min aircraft hours with an existing simulator)

Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

Question regarding upgrade path from EIR to BIR or CB-IR.
I assume that the theory part is covered by that one of EIR (which is the same as of CB-IR). Are there any other specifics ?

What would be the best option: EIR > BIR ot EIR to CB-IR ?
I would think the big difference is that for CBIR there is 10h ATO while not required for BIR. Am I correct ?

jfw
Belgium: EBGB (Grimbergen, Brussels) - EBNM (Namur), Belgium

jfw wrote:

Question regarding upgrade path from EIR to BIR or CB-IR.
I assume that the theory part is covered by that one of EIR (which is the same as of CB-IR). Are there any other specifics ?

Not sure about the exams validity period – it might be 36 months from the moment you’ve passed the exams.

jfw wrote:

What would be the best option: EIR > BIR ot EIR to CB-IR ?
I would think the big difference is that for CBIR there is 10h ATO while not required for BIR. Am I correct ?

Correct. Although I think for most pilots 10hrs would be the minimum anyway. If you already have EIR and 50hrs PIC XC (another pre-req for CB-IR), then I don’t see any point in doing BIR instead of CB-IR.

EGTR

jfw wrote:

I would think the big difference is that for CBIR there is 10h ATO while not required for BIR. Am I correct ?

You need ATO for BIR but not 10h but I really doubt anyone will be able to make it under that (possible if they fly their own aircraft from fully equipped airport with Cboth ILS & GPS approach to both runway ends to reduce cross-country time while doing load of “recent currency flying” with a freelance IRI?)

Even if one is IR rated with current sim practice, it will take few hours to get sharp in hand flying inside busy ATC/RT environnement with unfamiliar aircraft…having rented IFR aircraft with funky avionics that I launched straight in IMC after the checkout in unfamiliar places, I am sure I would not pass the IR test on my first leg but I am sure I would nail it after my 5th leg

Last Edited by Ibra at 16 Aug 12:44
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

The main deterrent to CB-IR is not ELP6 (which by the way is not mandatory) but theory.
Learning how a B737 EFIS looks like and how to operate its radar is even more useless in the BIR context than CB-IR.
So no progress I guess.

ESMK, Sweden

B737 questions are not supposed to be in the CBIR QB. If you get some you are supposed to appeal them! Not easy since you can’t take photos and aren’t allowed to take a piece of paper out of the room, and anyway nobody bothers to appeal if they got a pass (nobody else’s troubles matter).

The same applied to the JAA “private pilot IR” which I did (converting from FAA IR but that’s not relevant to this Q) in 2011. And later to the EASA IR.

All these have similar QBs, simply because there were no resources around (= nobody willing to put in the time) to generate a new “private IR” QB which would pass the acceptance test of all those in the establishment who demand the IR to be HARD.

All that’s happened is that the QBs have been changed around a bit… some questions removed, some added. And the general “quality control” varies. The UK QC is generally good. I would expect German one to be good too, Others, mostly much less so. Down in Greece, zero QC, so you just get the ATPL QB extract (with the B737 perf questions)

This is why the UK is so popular for CPL/IR. Also a CPL/IR without ELP is almost completely useless.

Of course most of the QB is crap anyway, without B737 questions But that’s a totally different debate. Most of the ATPL QB is crap, and not relevant to flying.

This is why pilots in Europe, and especially those converting from the US papers, try so hard to avoid doing these stupid useless exams, and this is why the European authorities work so hard to stop them finding work-arounds

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

In France, one can skip ELP6 (FCL055D) and skip FCL TK exams (3 QCM papers instead of 7/14) if they get the FN-IR which is basically CBIR restricted to F-airspace, the restriction can be removed if one pass ELP6 and have load of PIC IFR hours

I think some French FAA rated pilots have gone this way: they can fly IFR in France on FN-IR and they can fly IFR outside France on FAA ticket, while they can speak good English in eyes of US DPE they still can’t pass FCL055D exam (it seems tailored to B737 IFR drivers out of JFK or Barcelona with worldwide accents)

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 Aug 19:22
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom
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