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Greek Airports (being sold to FRAPORT in Germany) and many new problems

Peter wrote:

It’s worth mentioning that – unlike a number of “north” European countries – Greece doesn’t expect people to learn their language, so it is generally very easy to phone up a Greek airport in English. This is likely to be a lot faster for the person at the other end to deal with, than writing up an email which, frankly, a large % of modern society struggles with

You can call and get some quotation and then what if the actual bill is totally different? What proof do you have? And the chances you’ll get the person on the phone if they are really busy by running around are pretty slim. By sending e-mail sufficiently in advance, you’re giving them the opportunity to answer when they have time, even few days later and have the proof of getting quotation under certain conditions. Asynchronous communication is how the world functions today and phone calls are so last century

If the price list is well structured and publicly available (and reliable), you can rely on it and no questions are needed. However, the reality in Greece if far from that. For example let’s take Corfu Kerkira LGKR because many are familiar with it. Fraport is pretty transparent and you can get all info on charges at their price list. However, if you want to get info on additional fees, section “General Aviation” leads you to HSCA web site where you can get various information on slots and who can send requirements. Finally you can get Fraport PPR Handbook which will explain you various things about PPR. However, none of these documents, including AIP, doesn’t specify any contact to handlers; you can find list of handlers at HSCA web site. Clicking to Skyserv icon leads nowhere, Swissport gives you error 404 (and going to their main web gives you zero info), Signature and Goldair open their web sites without any useful info and for others I didn’t have patience to dig further.

So this is the real problem. Whenever the situation is not transparent, and information is not available and reliable, that opens the opportunity to corruption and scam. And, let’s be honest, that’s what handlers in Greece do. Where else sending one e-mail can be charged 50€? So again, it’s not Fraport (or they are less portion of the problem), the handlers are problem.

Last Edited by Emir at 06 Oct 12:45
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir wrote:

the handlers are problem.

Exactly. This is the main problem, Fraport is mainly for the PPRs and parking availability issue..

The only way AOPA in Greece is trying to help with this issue is having all the data in one page.
www.aopa.gr/Info paragraph 12b.
But this is a website “somewhere on the Internet” and there is no way to make sure all GA visitors to Greece read it (actually the whole page, not just the handlers’ subpage 12b )

LGMG Megara, Greece

skydriller wrote:

How would you react if you booked a hotel stay for 7 days, were quoted 700Euro and then on departure were given a bill for 1400Euro?

I would react aggressively if I showed up with the itinerary details I sent them weeks ago and got charged more than they quoted.
I would bite the bullet and pay whats due if I showed up with DIFFERENT itinerary details from what I sent them weeks ago and got charged more than they quoted.

I’m not implying this happened to you (different details from initial itinerary) I just mention it because it does happen often.

LGMG Megara, Greece

petakas wrote:

But this is a website “somewhere on the Internet” and there is no way to make sure all GA visitors to Greece read it (actually the whole page, not just the handlers’ subpage 12b )

Exactly! And thanks to everybody involved in collecting info and presenting it on this site. However, the problem is non-existence of official data publicly available on corresponding web pages of all involved companies.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Its been observed that some HANDLERS are reluctant in sending estimates of costs the reason being that data a pilot sends may be different from the data on the day of the flight’s arrival.

I know that there are some idiots around, but if there is transparency on the pricing and you arrive differently than planned (more people, heavier aircraft, no AOPA card, etc) that should not turn into an aggressive conversation?? The quote I got from one handler was totally transparent on what they charged and didn’t charge me on (e.g. no out-of-hours fee, but I did get a weekend premium). It was just very steep

EGTR

In Croatia (and I believe in the rest of Europe as well) price list is mandatory publicly available document and this is aplicable for cafes, restaurants, hairdressers, airports and any other business that sell goods or services (contracted G&S are exempted because price can vary).

Last Edited by Emir at 07 Oct 05:20
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Just got back from Greece (Santorini) and – like many other things in life, things are far easier than they appear from a distance.
As an example we had a long back and forth on kind of stand I needed at Santorini and the availability of a tow-bar and tow-head was a major issue. They needed to be able to move the plane. When arriving the handlers sugested that I just brake and lock the plane – they would just call me if they needed to move it. I am no expert on Greece, but I conclude that they’re excellent at creating bureaucracy and being the friendly people they are, the locals compensate with a healthy dose of pragmatism to make sure things work anyway.

Planning was a little bit of flash-back to my pre-IFR days when can spend days planning. Next time will for sure be easier, but a shout-out to AOPA Greece for their support of GA in Greece and the specific support on my trip. If you spend a bit of time on their website, you realise the amount of work that goes into the GA support and just how impossible it would been to fly to Greece, had it not been for their work !

EGTR

If you spend a bit of time on their website, you realise the amount of work that goes into the GA support and just how impossible it would been to fly to Greece, had it not been for their work !

I admire the efforts AOPA Greece invests in informing pilots and helping them flying in Greek airspace and negotiating with airports and handlers. However, sad thing is that in one EU country a citizens’ association has to invest its resources in something that should be provided by CAA and that should be fairly easy as in the rest of EU.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

This is wonderful



About halfway.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

So it’s ok to be “cheap and low level corrupt” in poor country because you can’t afford to be “high tech sophisticated corrupt person” like in developed countries? I heard lot of this in Africa: General Gadhafi did similar claim on his best two friends: Sarkozy and Berlousconi, after he did break up with them…

The “sophisticated corrupts” were sentenced to jail, the “cheap corrupt” however had street trial (a very ugly one that is not worth mentioning)

Is this a political thread?!

Last Edited by Ibra at 03 Feb 12:08
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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