Here is a preliminary account by the FAA. Looks like the pax really didn’t have any experience. Amazing.
Airborne_Again wrote:
The purser had a CPL and with assistance from ground he would most likely have been able to bring the aircraft down on a runway in one piece. As it was he had to break down the cockpit door and when he finally got in it was too late.
No cockpit door remains locked if the crew is unresponsive inside, unless the safety feature to unlock it is broken. But that is rare, even though it does happen. Normally, this is a no-go item.
Components of the flight deck access system
include an emergency access panel, chime module, three-position door lock selector, two
indicator lights, and an access system guarded switch. The emergency access panel
includes a six button keypad for entering a numeric access code along with red, amber
and green lights.
The door was unlocked using this feature on Helios 522. It is only a pity this was done way too late. It is puzzling as well why the cabin crew did not open the cockpit door when the aircraft continued it’s climb despite the masks having fallen out.
It was a cabin attendant who had a UK CPL. It is pretty clear that it was this CA who tried to take over the airplane, but by the time he did, the airplane was out of fuel. He also was not located in front during the flight but in the aft galley, so it might have taken him a while to realize that nobody acted on the fact that they were flying in cruise while oxygen masks were deployed. Also he was not qualified on the 737 and was probably massively affected by hypoxia.
Had someone opened the cockpit door and the CPL qualified pilot had access during climb, chances are he could at the very least have descended the airplane to breathable altitudes, which at that time might have revived the cockpit crew. It is also quite probable that any qualified pilot who acts as cabin crew would have more than a small interest to inform himself about the type he was flying.
In the end, the Helios disaster was one big screw up. Maintenance left the packs in manual, so they did not pressurize the airplane. The cockpit crew did not catch that during preflight and did not identify what they thought was a take off config alert during climb as a cabin pressure alert. Subsequently, the cabin crew interfered too late to be able to do anything useful.
Cabin Attendant number four also held a UK Commercial Pilot License (JAR CPL A/IR)
with an issue date of 2 October 2003, and valid to 1 October 2008. His JAA Class 1
Medical Certificate was valid from 15 July 2005 to 17 July 2006
AIUI the 737 door unlocks when both engines lose power. That was when he got in, so already with no fuel to fly anywhere.
The door may also unlock when pressurisation is lost; I vaguely recall reading that somewhere. But that would also need both engines to have failed, or a big hole in the cabin.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
I recall that following the Helios debacle there was talk of familiarizing interested FA’s with basic cockpit skills and getting those who show aptitude into a sim program to a point where they could get any airliner they are rated on to perform an autoland or getting it onto the ground in a survivable shape. Nothing much came out of it, but I still find the idea excellent, even if it w
They should rather change the rules for locking the cockpit. The purser had a CPL and with assistance from ground he would most likely have been able to bring the aircraft down on a runway in one piece. As it was he had to break down the cockpit door and when he finally got in it was too late.
Ibra wrote:
one could get a pax to press 7 buttons to select an RNP, set 40%+/-10% power and manage the last bit of the flare, the problem is having a big runway nearby, in Florida it’s hard to land on something that is not an airport with four 3km cross-runways
7 buttons is 6 too many for most in such a situation. There is no replacement for training.
It has helped of course that today you only need a medical before your checkride and no more “lerners license” to be able to train, which used to be a massive stumbling block and limiting PH courses to 5 hours. Nowadays it is perfectly possible in Europe to train anyone properly to be able to execute a reasonably safe landing. I always felt it was a good thing to involve frequent pax, spouses in particular, as much as legally possible. Not only does it make flying more interesting for them, it is a definite safety improvement in case of pilot incapacitation.
I recall that following the Helios debacle there was talk of familiarizing interested FA’s with basic cockpit skills and getting those who show aptitude into a sim program to a point where they could get any airliner they are rated on to perform an autoland or getting it onto the ground in a survivable shape. Nothing much came out of it, but I still find the idea excellent, even if it will cause some cost and additional planning.
I gather with something like GTN+GFC700, one could get a pax to press 7 buttons to select an RNP, set 40%+/-10% power and manage the last bit of the flare, the problem is having a big runway nearby, in Florida it’s hard to land on something that is not an airport with four 3km cross-runways
I still think PAX here has flown GA before (likely his granddad or uncle Bonanza), it’s not that uncommon in US
172driver wrote:
I find it hard to believe the pax had absolutely no experience. A phrase like ‘descending through eightyonehundred’ isn’t really what someone who had never been in an airplane would use
He may have sim experience or he may have watches lots of youtube and picked up the phrases. VAS aviation or similar.
Some people simply are naturals. I would not be surprised if he goes for a PPL now, if coached properly. I think the guy who landed the King Air a few years ago did get rated later on.
gallois wrote:
How hard could it be with just a touch of AI.?
That is pretty much what Garmin’s autoland does. And yes, that would be a very good thing to have on just about every airplane which is either SP or used for passenger transport, recalling the Helios disaster….
gallois wrote:
She has agreed that some day she would like to do a pinch hitters course, as they used to be called in USA and UK.
Just get it done without her having much chance to refuse. Get her to fly with a CFI you trust and maybe she knows from afar. And stay away from the airplane!
There are a lot of such initiatives, also in the US such as the “Right seat forward” courses by Jolie Lucas and Jan Maxwell which have this goal.
Also nowadays, you can do some of this in a simulator if you got a good one. But ONLY with a skilled instructor.
gallois wrote:
But that was it and over to a professional instructor.
In 99% of cases that is the way to go. It is very rare that spouses will accept tuition by their significant other. Not only on the subject of driving or flying, but in general. I know there are cases where it did work, but they are few and far between.
The problem with check lists like this is that they tend to grow, and before you know it you have a full PPL course.
My wife, a passenger who doesn’t like turns and gets extremely nervous at the first bump of turbulence, decided that if she was going to fly with me, she would not have the headsets on and would either sleep or read a book.
I keep my passenger briefing short, because she listens less to them than most passengers listen to the safety briefing given by cabin crew on an airline.
As far as me teaching or demonstrating anything, it’s in one ear and out the other and usually ends up in a row. I would like to teach her how to set up the radio and use the autopilot. I tried teaching her to drive once, it didn’t end well.First time out she decided to swerve into an Aston Martin, fortunately I was able to avoid the crash. But that was it and over to a professional instructor.
She passed her test first time something she always reminds me of. It took a 2nd attempt for me.
I would, however, demonstrate how to use the parachute, if I had one.
She has agreed that some day she would like to do a pinch hitters course, as they used to be called in USA and UK. But always keeps putting it off or finds excuses.
Press it and she’s more likely to refuse to fly than to take the course.😀
But I would like to know how many pilots have become incapacitated in flight. My sense is, not many, but we do only hear of the ones that are landed successfully by a passenger.
If there are many, one has to wonder on the effectiveness of aviation medicals.
My answer would be a panic button in every aircraft. Press it and First Officer Alexa takes over. Calls ATS, sets 7700, and possibly sets the autopilot to nav and tells it where to go for the nearest suitable airfield. Most aircraft will do a pretty good job of landing on their own if set up correctly. If obstacles can be avoided, many hard landings are survivable, at least for the POB. Not necessarily the aircraft, but is that important?
How hard could it be with just a touch of AI.?
Great outcome! I just listened to the audio of that event and I find it hard to believe the pax had absolutely no experience. A phrase like ‘descending through eightyonehundred’ isn’t really what someone who had never been in an airplane would use. Unfortunately (for us, that is), the final vectoring was done over the phone, so no audio available. Apparently one of the controllers is a CFI and talked the guy down. Still, the approach and landing were flown extremely well, kudos!
In any case, this spurred my GF to want to learn more about flying, so a good outcome all around!
