..in the end i decided it was too difficult…
A wise decision! Our FNPT procedure trainer is equipped with very similar avionics as your plane (especially the same autopilot and GNS 430). It would be interesting to hand some non-pilot your instruction sheet and let him have a go. I think that the engine will have run out of fuel before he reaches the end of the list. I know from my students that trying to figure out how to set frequencies on a GNS 430 can take several minutes. And even I would have difficulties setting 7700 on your model of transponder that I have never seen before…
In the age of mode S transponders, I would not bother with it anyway. Once he is able to communicate with someone and knows where to look for the tail number, ATC have all they need to identity the aircraft.
Anyway, in my opinion only a “pinch hitter” course of several hours hand flying and actually practising landings will give a non-pilot a realistic chance of making a survivable landing. Or countless hours playing with a flight simulator on a PC.
I think the extent to which one could do this depends hugely on the aptitude of the passenger.
A few people do the PPL in 45hrs. Most take about 60. And a few take 100+. There are many external factors in this e.g. how the instructor is matched to the student’s personality. In the same way the way one would approach this will depend on the personality etc of the passenger. About 12 years ago I did this for a GF I used to fly with and she diligently wrote down the steps to engage the autopilot etc. With ATC vectors she would have got it down some ILS. But other people’s eyes just glaze over and they prefer to pretend it will never happen.
So I don’t think one “course” will fit all, by any means. Except in a Cirrus where it can potentially be very simple.
This is like PPL training. It really ought to be tailored to the student, but it isn’t.
Except in a Cirrus where it can potentially be very simple.
With respect: it is very simple for someone with at least a PPL who has spent time in charge of an aircraft. For a passenger, with little or no experience Flying and landing an aircraft, it isn’t easy at all.
By illustration, as mentioned above, my daughter has done the Cirrus PIC course. She is also one of the most athletically gifted people I know and, on top of that, had two hours flying my aircraft with one of the best Cirrus instructors there is. I let her try to fly a vectored ILS and there is NO doubt that we would all have died had I not taken control back from her. At the end of it, her reaction was: “ok, now I know why I should pull the chute”.
She is right!
I think you can show a trained pilot how to fly and land an unfamiliar aircraft quite quickly. But I think the chances of a passenger making an IFR approach and landing are exceptionally low. All it would take is to accidentally disconnect the autopilot while trying to use the PTT switch and it would be over. There are hundreds of other ways it could go wrong.
In a cirrus I get that teaching them to pull the chute could save lives.
Overall I see no point in trying to teach a passenger to land the plane. The angst caused to most non pilots by even raising the risk of pilot incapacitation outweighs the miniscule likelihood of the pilot being incapacitated AND a passenger succesfully landing the plane.
Thanks for a very enlightening discussion so far!
outweighs the miniscule likelihood of the pilot being incapacitated
I can see that side of the argument.
AND a passenger successfully landing the plane.
but I’m not convinced here. I’m not convinced the likelihood of SOME apt passengers landing, say, a Cessna 152 in a way that they SURVIVE by following some very basic principles (again, maintain save airspeed and, as someone posted further above, fly towards the runway and once above and low, pull the throttle) is miniscule. I may not be a very high chance either, but landing a simple airplane neither is a magic act. I actually find it a rather simple process (whereas landing it in a NICE and consistent way (which has little to do with surviving) is an altogether different story and much harder). Of course, chances in the scenario above are that the person will interpret “low above the runway” much too high and ruin it that way – because I can imagine that’s what most students would do initially, i.e. flare too early.
Note from the Antonov AN-2 POH – applicable even after raiding the vodka rations.
“If the engine quits in instrument conditions (blind flying when you can’t see the ground) or at night, the pilot should pull the control column full aft (it won’t stall) and keep the wings level. The leading-edge slats will snap out at about 40mph (64km/h), and when the airplane slows to a forward speed of about 25mph [40km/h], the airplane will sink at about a parachute descent rate until the aircraft hits the ground.”
I am more sanguine that some fixed gear, docile four seaters (DA40, C172, PA28) with people strapped in, nose up trim, engine off, fuel off, and using rudder – the ‘forced landing’ will be reasonably survivable. The modern C172 also has airbags, so even more so. You have a lot of structure to dissipate a relatively modest amount of kinetic energy and you should ‘walk away’ with some bruises/broken ribs.
These robust FG aircraft with 45 knot type stall speeds enjoy a real safety advantage. The Cirrus and C182 with BRS also.
I don’t see even the smallest chance for a passenger to fly an IFR approach, no matter what airplane. I did the PPL in 35 hours, flew 1500 hours and have the IR rating and i really have to concentrate to set up the autopilot and the navigators correctly. … FWIW
I taught both my kids to fly the Warrior in an emergency. My daughter could fly straight and level and shallow turns with 6 years, my son managed to configure the plane for landing with 11 and descend towards an open field … but it was clear that the chances for survival would have been very slim. I told them to try to slow down, steer towards away from houses and hold the wings level …
With the Cirrus i brief them before every flight. I let my son sit in the front seat because he can reach the handle of the CAPS system. If i lose consciousness the briefing is:
If high in cruise:
- Steer away from cities and big towns
- Pull power to idle
- Pull red handle
- pull red knob to stop engine
In all other situations like shortly after take off or on aproach the briefing is:
- pull the handle!
When my wife (an artist) is on board it’s easy. Soon after we met she did the PPL for fun. (I impressed her with the airplane and then she showed me that it’s no big deal to learn to fly ;-)) She did it in 40 hours and although she stopped flying a short time later and her PPL is not even valid anmyore – i am pretty sure she could get us down.
I guess I wrote my instructions to cover an IMC situation….as a minimum engaging the autopilot will keep them alive a bit longer!
Typically in IMC the FG Operating Handbook will have an emergency procedure. Which works for a emergency let down – so you need to be above the cloud.
Reduce power for a gradual descent, set up trim for best glide or slightly less, use rudder to maintain wings level with turn co ordinator. For non gyro aircraft you would descend on a Southerly heading using the compass keeping wings level using rudder.
A Warrior with full nose up trim and fuel off having a forced landing wings level should be survivable unless you crashed into a fuel truck – yes nose wheel ripped off, etc, bruises possible collar bone or ribs – but they are built to withstand this type of forced landing. Main risks are the subsequent risk of fire hence need to ensure fuel and electrics off.
Martha and John King of kingschools.com had a DVD course on this – once. Called “Pinch-hitters guide to flying” or something. I just looked, and the DVD is no longer for sale. Maybe they realized it did not work.
This is about two very different scenarios.
One is to make flying with family more pleasant. Many years ago, my wife had a flight lesson or two with an instructor college of mine, and a women-only classroom theory lesson for pilot wifes/GF’s, Thus encouraging “dumb” questions. While I doubt it made much difference in case of a real emergency, most of the girls liked it, and for us it did make flying together more enjoyable, because she understood a little more of what was going on, started participating a little, and just felt more comfortable.
The other scenario is about saving lives in case of pilot incapacitation. I am not saying it is difficult to learn to land a Cessna 172 in a survivable way. But for most non-pilots, it would take some training, and recurrent training, to avoid screwing up. I guess the instinctive reaction for most non-pilots would be a death grip on the stick. In which case the plane’s natural stability is no more of any help. The hardest thing to learn is not to touch anything for a while, if the pilot turns blue and silent. Then find the PTT and say HELP! – and release the PTT again! Having managed just so far would be a lucky achievement – unless the person has some confidence, which for most people would take several training lessons.
My wife sets the transponder code, sometimes manage the audio, and occasionally reminds me of altitude drift. She also likes to assist the terrestrial navigation and help spotting traffic. Without this involvement she might not have enjoyed flying with me anymore. There is some real assistance to the pilot in this, but not the things it takes to land. When we were younger, flying together was fun always – now it is frequently just uncomfortable to her, and her ears hurt more. Planning slow descents, using a newer, more comfortable airplane and reserving the Bose headset for her, it all helps.
Back to the subject. I am all with Maoraigh and what next. If your valuable passenger would like to learn to land the plane, let her have the training, and enough of it, and keep her in the loop. But I do not think it works at all without motivation and recurrent training, unless she is a real talent.
