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100LL becoming increasingly scarce in the south of Sweden

Ibra wrote:

My understanding Hjelmco does not deal with private pilots: they don’t sell at the pump?

That’s correct. They provide the pumps, but leave the retail business to others.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Is keeping one or two barrels of 100LL and a hand cranked pump in a shed a viable alternative for entertaining guests? Or is it an environmental protection issue?

Berlin, Germany

Arne wrote:

As the chairman of the board of my flying club, I take a little offense to such broad statements.

It was certainly not my intention to offend any dedicated people like yourself and it is perfectly clear that it’s not everywhere like this.

And it is also clear, that infrastructure costs money which needs to come from somewhere.

IMHO it is the very structure of how our airfields are regarded that is part of the problem. Infrastructure by its very nature needs financial and political support, which in return means they can and should provide the services required for the users of that infrastructure. That it is impossible to do that in many cases out of simply cost is clear.

Where I find things to be going a step too far is if airports are of dedicated use of a single club or by movement caps to the effect that they are no longer can be considered infrastructure but private airfields with limited or no use for visiting airplanes or who have fuel for based planes only e.t.c. There are several such examples where I live and in the surrounding areas, some of which in places which can no longer reasonably be reached by GA. Airfields like that have preciously little use but for the locals.

Single airfield operators and clubs will not be able to change this problem single handed, but what is required is a fundamental shift on how airfields and airports are regarded by politicians and the population, paving the way for a model closer to the one in force in the US. This is particularly important when airfields are single points of access to cities and areas.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Is keeping one or two barrels of 100LL and a hand cranked pump in a shed a viable alternative for entertaining guests? Or is it an environmental protection issue?

Environmental “issues” are largely arbitrary, no more so than in relation to storage of fuel and how it is done. I knew of a small FBO that used a Twin Bonanza for the purpose of storing 100LL, 134 gallons or 500 liters of it without a permitting requirement That method also had the benefit of allowing the fuel to be purchased less expensively in Mexico and transported to the FBO’s airport located 1 mile north of the US/Mexican border. At the time (years ago) they would fly over and fill it up every few days.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 12 Jun 13:08

LeSving wrote:

Clearly the big consumers are the locals

When viewed from a local perspective of a specific airfield, the most consumption is done by the local aircraft based on the specific airfield. It’s like with boats. 99% of the fuel is used by the boats that are based at that port. So if you do not have any 100LL burner on that field, there’s nothing to gain with a 100LL fuel pump.

But viewed from a perspective when looking at the whole GA fleet consumption there’s still the major portion of piston engine hours that is driven by 100LL. So “the big consumers of fuel” as a general statement are the 100LL burners, that are the touring aircraft. We had that more than once here.

Germany

Silvaire wrote:

I knew of an FBO that used a Twin Bonanza for the purpose of storing 100LL

isn’t that a somewhat expensive fuel tank?

Really looks like things are different in the States.

Germany

Twin Bonanzas (T-Bones in the vernacular) were once upon a time littered about all over the place, most barely airworthy and none worth very much. Some of them were ex-military. That in combination with huge fuel capacity made the one I mentioned perfect for the job of transporting fuel in 10 minute cross border flights

Nowadays you don’t see one very often and when you do it’s more likely to be in good shape.

Last Edited by Silvaire at 12 Jun 13:14

Silvaire wrote:

I knew of a small FBO that used a Twin Bonanza for the purpose of storing 100LL, 134 gallons or 500 liters of it without a permitting requirement That method also had the benefit of allowing the fuel to be purchased less expensively in Mexico and transported to the FBO’s airport located 1 mile north of the US/Mexican border. At the time (years ago) they would fly over and fill it up every few days.

LOL! Cool!

Would have been a neat job for an AN2 as well with it’s 1200 liter Avgas capacity… Never thought of that really.

Now there’s an idea for a “flying tanker” of a different kind.

Silvaire wrote:

Twin Bonanzas (T-Bones in the vernacular) were once upon a time littered about all over the place, most barely airworthy and none worth very much. Some of them were ex-military. That in combination with huge fuel capacity made the one I mentioned perfect for the job of transporting fuel in 10 minute cross border flights

Many many many moons ago I flew one of them with my then FI for a similar purpose, even though I think they used the fuel for the actual airplane. LSZR-EDNY, full fuel and back to LSZR.

Believe it or not I even found a picture of the good old T-Bone and even worse, i remembered the registration…

https://www.planespotters.net/photo/1173400/hb-gaf-private-beech-c50-twin-bonanza

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 12 Jun 15:12
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

Arne wrote:

Even if Hjelmco offers a free tank, and assuming you have everything else in the form of authorizations in place (the Swedes can watch that one part from last year’s Motorflygskonferens), you still need to immobilize cash in the shape of stored fuel. The oil companies don’t fill up for free and invoice when you consume.

If I’m not mistaken Hjemco arrange everything, Tank, Documents, Permits etc.
And I think the tank also was fully automatic payment with VISA/Mastercard.
So the club (or you wants to sign the deal) can become an reseller and earn money.

I did check it up briefly since the airport (ESTA) where I first found a free hangar space didn’t have 100LL.

3000L = 30SEK x 3000l = 90000 SEK (Roughly 8000 EUR) and that is an amount I would lay up without hesitation.

ESMS, ESML, Sweden

UdoR wrote:

But viewed from a perspective when looking at the whole GA fleet consumption there’s still the major portion of piston engine hours that is driven by 100LL. So “the big consumers of fuel” as a general statement are the 100LL burners, that are the touring aircraft. We had that more than once here.

Except the numbers doesn’t add up. “100LL burning tourers” cannot be more than a percent at most of all fuel being used. This is the reason why 100LL gradually disappears. If the locals don’t need it, it becomes a nuisance and a money drain.

It’s something to keep in mind when investing in an aircraft. 100LL is not going away anytime soon, but it’s getting more and more troublesome.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
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