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More quirks of French IFR - NIMBY waypoints

My club got a noise complaint from a neighbour after the nearby (5 km) airbase had done airshow practise with SAAB JAS 39 Gripens for most of a day. I thought it was a joke or that the complaint had been directed to the wrong airport, but apparently not!! (We weren’t even allowed in the air during that time.)

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 20 Aug 13:39
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Happens to us a lot. We get regular complaints and so does the town hall from 2 or 3 people.
They complain about the aerobatics which is not down to us but the military area practicing their dog fighting. But it did mean that the town hall has put a hold on aerobatic training at the airfield.Even for the time being stopping tje French aerobatic team coming for their preparations for national, european and world championships. It’s such a shame for everyone except these few individuals.


greg_mp wrote:

As every one does for the VPT in Cannes, is adding LUXUS and PIBON points after the GA procedure of the FMS then do direct if you want to do it with the autopilot. Once you have done it a first time, you know what these points are, but you will never find point A and B indeed. But for point A you can take the big RoundAbout in the penetrante Cannes-Grasse at Mouans Sartoux (at about 1600ft) and gently turn to the final while intercepting the PAPI over the green area.

It’s not about whether it’s feasible to recognize/overfly points A and B but about some valid questions raised in this thread:
1. Why aren’t these points described with coordinates within IFR procedure?
2. Is the noise abatement procedure aligned with rules for acceptable error when overflying certain point?

LDZA LDVA, Croatia


1. Who knows. Some arcane principle that the DGAC, or some old fart there, clings to.
2. Almost certainly not given that the gap between the prescribed path and the nimby zone is no more than about 200m.

Anyway (DGAC please look the other way) I’ve figured out the coordinates of points A & B, thanks to the IGN’s excellent on-line maps and Opennav’s list of French waypoints ( ).

A: 43:36:40 N 6:58:00 E
B: 43:36:4 N 6:56:26 E (this is a bit approximate because their charts aren’t very good)

My plan is to create three user waypoints:

PIB0 43:36:11 N 6:58:52 E (0.2 miles from PIBON on the same track as LUXUS-PIBON)
PIBA as above
PIBB 43:36:21 N 6:56:22 E (a little north of Point B, aligned with the runway)

Then to set the route as LUXUS-PIBON-PIB0-PIBA-PIBB

PIB0 and the displacement of PIBB are to work around the curved fly-past route that the AP will fly, so as to overfly PIBON and point B with reasonable accuracy.

And to monitor this on SDVFR while the AP is flying it.

LFMD, France

johnh wrote:

And to monitor this on SDVFR while the AP is flying it.

If it doesn’t decide to disconnect itself

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir wrote:

f it doesn’t decide to disconnect itself

There is that. Off to the avionics shop on Tuesday to dry and sort it out. Hopefully it’s just a question of replacing the OAT sensor.

LFMD, France

But it did mean that the town hall has put a hold on aerobatic training at the airfield

@gallois , presumably you mean in the aerodrome overhead? (Which I know is the usual french thing to do : nice line feature, aerodrome below if the engine quits etc…) But surely the Marie cannot prevent someone taking off from the aerodrome and doing Aeros in Class G…

Yes in the overhead. The LFFK had an aerobatic mention on the VAC as approved for aerobatics.
Outside of airfield there would be different mayors, each commune usually has a mayor.
I can’t say I know all the regulations surrounding class G and aerobatics. In our area it has not really been the aerobatics that has caused the problem it is military training doing dog fights above 3000ft in an RA and not over the airfield.
The nimbys complain, not to the military but either to the president of the club or to the mayor. The mayor then rings the president of club who explains there is no one flying out of the field. The mayor then goes back to the Nimby to say its not us it’s the military. The nimby then phones the military who tells them to have sex and travel (well perhaps not as blunt but pretty blunt).The nimby then makes every effort to take its frustration out on the airfield.
The mayor then makes a political decision to temporarily (we hope) stop all aerobatics above the field so that when the complaint comes, his secretary can say honestly “the noise is nothing to do with the airfield aw aerobatics are not permitted”
To your question about ad hoc aerobatics in general in class G you must take account of a) the nimbys are everywhere and will complain at the sound of a parachute flapping in the wind.
b) most of the aerobatics I am talking about is training and in particular competition you need judges/instructors/mentors on the ground. Many of these mentors are ex world and or European champions running special classes for a week or so.

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