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Cancelling IFR in controlled airspace with SVFR<WX<VFR

LeSving wrote:

Aha. That is indeed relaxing the VMC requirements (for the control zone) IMO.

You may of course have any opinion you want, but that doesn’t mean you’re right.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Not right perhaps, but logical (I think ) The main reason is that it’s not legal for me to fly VFR in IMC. The VMC restriction in a CTR is obviously set due to separation constraints in a controlled environment, not due to VFR constraints. Therefore ATC can relax VMC constraints when they see fit, on a per case basis. I don’t see how they can suddenly make it legal for me to fly in IMC.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Not in solid IMC.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

LeSving wrote:

The main reason is that it’s not legal for me to fly VFR in IMC.

That’s why it is called Special VFR and not just VFR!

I don’t see how they can suddenly make it legal for me to fly in IMC.

Because that’s what the rules say!?

Peter wrote:

Not in solid IMC.

Indeed not. That’s been pointed out several times.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Therefore ATC can relax VMC constraints when they see fit, on a per case basis. I don’t see how they can suddenly make it legal for me to fly in IMC

Of course, they can allow flight with reduced cloud separation and reduced visbility (but not flight inside clouds on SVFR)

I think the elephant in the room for cancel IFR to fly SVFR is the distance from obstacles. Do you get relaxation of min VFR cruise altitudes when doing SVFR transit in Norway CTR? transit = no intention to land

In France, in most places SVFR clearance in CTR does allow relaxation of distance from both clouds and you fly along mandatory SVFR transit routes_. As such, you do get exemption from min cruise altitude, especially when your route say not above 500ft agl. However, if the CTR is not active, you should think twice before making those transits on uncontrolled VFR with low pass over houses or airfields with no intention to land (hide reg in clouds or fly inverted)

@Antonio can one fly low SVFR at 300ft agl to LESB after an ILS to LEPA? what would be the legal basis?

  • Does one rely on the SVFR published routes inside CTR to fly at 300ft agl
  • Does one rely on the intention to land at LESB to get low flying concession over LEPA

I guess you can always fly published IFR missed, slow suboptimal 1% climb, leave CTR, go VFR in Golf no ATC clearance is required to perform this, only pilot blind calls LOL

Last Edited by Ibra at 14 Mar 16:57
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Because that’s what the rules say!?

It does not say I can fly in IMC! There’s no mention of IMC at all. Other rules on the other hand, explicitly say I cannot.

Do you get relaxation of min VFR cruise altitudes when doing SVFR transit in Norway CTR? transit = no intention to land

I have never done that SVFR. Besides, at those airports with VFR routes, they are always described as max alt. Typically max 2000 ft. That’s also the clearance you get. Clear to leave/enter via XXX YYYY feet or below.

Last Edited by LeSving at 15 Mar 07:34
The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

It does not say I can fly in IMC! There’s no mention of IMC at all Other rules on the other hand, explicitly say I cannot.

LeSving – some people are playing games with you. It centres on that if the conditions are not IAW VFR requirements (whatever these may be in the particular airspace etc) then you are not VFR and must thus be IFR or optionally SVFR. But not necessarily IMC.

Historically SVFR was also used to enter a Class A CTR (Class A extending all the way to SFC) with just a PPL – in the UK at least.

The rest is stuff which I cannot decipher.

Note that there are no less than two PhDs in this debate

In the meantime almost everybody else has switched off the TV.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

LeSving wrote:

It does not say I can fly in IMC! There’s no mention of IMC at all. Other rules on the other hand, explicitly say I cannot.

SERA, definitions: ‘instrument meteorological conditions (IMC)’ mean meteorological conditions expressed in terms of visibility, distance from cloud, and ceiling, less than the minima specified for visual meteorological conditions;

So, in short, IMC are meteorological conditions “less than” VMC.

SERA, definitions: ‘special VFR flight’ means a VFR flight cleared by air traffic control to operate within a control zone in meteorological conditions below VMC;

So, unless you consider “less than” and “below” to mean different things in this context, a Special VFR flight may operate in IMC. (Subject to some additional conditions which are clearly specified.)

This will be my last post in this particular discussion. There is not much point discussing what the rules say if you don’t know the rules and also don’t want to read them.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 15 Mar 07:42
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Don’t despair, AA. Special VFR and the definitions of VMC vs. IMC have always confused people and always will.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

And AA the most

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway
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