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Cancelling IFR in controlled airspace with SVFR<WX<VFR

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Can you do that legally and then kind of force ATC to grant an SVFR clearance that they may otherwise not be able to grant?

Or otherwise it would be non-compliant to cancel IFR in such conditions unless you previously requested and were granted an SVFR clearance?

Last Edited by Antonio at 08 Mar 20:32
Antonio
LESB, Spain

You mean in CTR not TMA?

In CTR, tower ATC should not have a problem offering SVFR on IFR cancellation,

  • For lateral separation, ATC will tend to have it already there
  • For vertical separation, SVFR tend to block all levels under you while IFR tend to reserve only their levels

The latter is really moot as, CTR does not have that many x1000ft levels available (2500ft max?)

In TMA, you can’t have SVFR clearance but you are the guy deciding if weather > VFR, including in Echo TMA where you don’t need ATC clearance to switch IFR/VFR (need weather > 5km & 1000ft)

In CTR, it’s ATC who decides on SVFR weather

Last Edited by Ibra at 08 Mar 20:56
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Yes the point is really relevant for CTR. So who is to assure that SVFR traffic rules are complied with at the time of my request?
For example some CTRs only allow one SVFR traffic at a time, I may not be aware that there is already another SVFR traffic in the CTR at the time of my cancellation.

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Antonio wrote:

Yes the point is really relevant for CTR. So who is to assure that SVFR traffic rules are complied with at the time of my request?
For example some CTRs only allow one SVFR traffic at a time, I may not be aware that there is already another SVFR traffic in the CTR at the time of my cancellation.

I don’t recall the details exactly, but isn’t a clearance for SVFR necessary explicitly before entering a CTR, so cancel IFR within a CTR is not legally possible under SVMC and consequently the discussion sliding to a constellation impossible outside an emergency declaration?

Germany

MichaLSA wrote:

I don’t recall the details exactly, but isn’t a clearance for SVFR necessary explicitly before entering a CTR, so cancel IFR within a CTR is not legally possible under SVMC and consequently the discussion sliding to a constellation impossible outside an emergency declaration?

The SERA paragraph about SVFR (SERA.5010) mentions no such restriction.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Hm, I know this is completely irrelevant in practice and only splitting hairs but isn’t it that only one aircraft at a time is allowed special VFR in a CTR? How could that be guaranteed if everybody was able to cancel IFR at will under conditions below normal VFR minima?

EDFM (Mannheim), Germany

I think this is probably easier to answer by looking at other situations.

Imagine IFR in IMC in class G.
If you cancel IFR, you are now illegally VFR in IMC.
Cancelling IFR isn’t illegal, but flying in IMC under VFR is.

Then imagine you are in IFR in IMC in a TMA. SVFR isn’t available in a TMA.
If you cancel IFR, you are now illegally VFR in IMC.
Cancelling IFR isn’t illegal, but flying in IMC under VFR is.

I think those are probably uncontroversial.

The only difference between those and the CTR is that there is a possibility of getting SVFR in a CTR. But there is no guarantee.
So it must hold that it’s the pilots responsibility to ensure that if they cancel IFR while in IMC in a CTR, that they go straight to a SVFR clearance without ever going to VFR. That would suggest that you’d have to get a SVFR clearance before you could cancel IFR. They can’t allow themselves to become VFR in IMC at any point, even if it’s just a few moments before getting the SVFR clearance.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

terbang wrote:

Hm, I know this is completely irrelevant in practice and only splitting hairs but isn’t it that only one aircraft at a time is allowed special VFR in a CTR? How could that be guaranteed if everybody was able to cancel IFR at will under conditions below normal VFR minima?

SVFR traffic must be separated from all other traffic. One very simple way of doing that is only allowing one aircraft at a time. But also procedural or radar separation can be used. It depends on local procedures.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

dublinpilot wrote:

That would suggest that you’d have to get a SVFR clearance before you could cancel IFR. They can’t allow themselves to become VFR in IMC at any point, even if it’s just a few moments before getting the SVFR clearance.

I have never thought that SVFR is flying in IMC. It’s still VFR conditions, only not good enough for separation (by ATC) in a CTR. Shut down the tower, and you can fly all day It could also be IMC of course (if flying IFR), but then you will never get SVFR in the first place.

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

LeSving wrote:

I have never thought that SVFR is flying in IMC. It’s still VFR conditions,

SVFR is exactly flying in IMC conditions – but obviously with visual references. (Well, technically I guess you could fly SVFR in VMC but there wouldn’t be much of a point.)

Note that “IMC” doesn’t mean that you lack visual references. You can be clear of cloud with good visibility and still IMC. (I’m not saying that you don’t know this, but many people don’t understand the distinction.)

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 10 Mar 09:26
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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