Today an UL got intercepted by the French air force because… having departed from a French aerodrome, it flew, without FPL, for 5 (according to FligthRadar24) or 6 (according to a friend of the pilot) minutes over Italian territory before re-entering France. GS was 130kts increasing to 160kts over that segment, so let’s call that about a dozen nmi. The part of the flight path that is over Italy doubled in red to show again how minor this was.
Much consternation.
The real question was he talking to anyone providing flight information Geneva, Milano? or he flew NORDO 7000?
In that corner there are lot of restricted and military areas on both sides, plus it seems not filing flight plan gets one a jail sentence in Italy (being intercepted by Air Force is better in the big scheme of things)
I nipped borders without flight plan while talking to SIV, I don’t recall it’s an issue…
Ibra wrote:
The real question was he talking to anyone providing flight information
My guess is not; if he were (at least on the French side), my guess they would have talked to him directly on this subject, not intercepted him by calling him on 121.500; possibly he was on “mountain frequency” instead, I think that’s a common practice. I didn’t get definitive direct confirmation, though.
Ibra wrote:
Geneva, Milano
Geneva? This happened far south of Geneva.
Yes likely he was on Mountain frequency or not on any frequency
Geneva? This happened far south of Geneva
Marseille, not sure why I said Geneva 
Ibra wrote:
In that corner there are lot of restricted and military areas on both sides, plus it seems not filing flight plan gets one a jail sentence in Italy (being intercepted by Air Force is better in the big scheme of things)Well, if that is the case, I think half of all Swiss pilots doing the famous Matterhorn circumnavigation should be in jail by now, or at least have been intercepted by the air force once. Never heard of that. In other words: It’s a pretty common practice to penetrate Italian airspace around the Matterhorn and also around Mont-Blanc without an FPL.
This occurrence must have some other reason
Training and pouring taxpayer money
Never heard of that. In other words: It’s a pretty common practice to penetrate Italian airspace around the Matterhorn and also around Mont-Blanc without an FPL.
See post cited by Peter, it seems radio contact (with or without flight plan) is required, at least in eyes of police and court
Sure, maybe Geneva triggers an abbreviated FPL in background or give Milano Radar a call. Who knows. But at least it worked out perfectly fine.
Likely the case but apparently it’s radio contact that matters not having flight plan in the system (even without transponder, I did load of these in Gliders without flight plans as I did not know how to file and rarely cared but we were told to making radio calls to FIS is required, after all that is what “FIR FIS” do? identify who goes here and there? they don’t have another job…)
I’ve flown this same area, with FPL, several times crossing from LFNA to LIPV. In my experience is impossible to have radio contact with Marseille Info due to topography.
Coolhand wrote:
In my experience is impossible to have radio contact with Marseille Info due to topography
It could be the case when one is flying very low but then no secondary radar echo and no FR24 traces, and everybody is happy the assumption for low VFR between terrain with no radio contact is that you have to speak to someone (another FIS, AFIS or airlines above) who will rely your ident and report your messages
I recall asking airlines and other traffic to speak to Seville on my behalf while I was on VFR flight plan flying a ridiculous low altitude
That’s not how it’s done in there. You just monitor info if you receive it, then switch to 130.0 and self report in the valley.
Now you have to have a FPL, but i’ve never heard of a low flying SEP asking for a relay with airliners, anyways they are not on the same frequency on this place.
