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New Eurocontrol restrictions on altitude (YoYo) and lateral dog leg (120deg) during validation

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Eurocontrol recently introduced restrictions on altitude (YoYo) and lateral dog leg (120deg) during validation, one can still bypass using RMK/PROFYYINT (this gets monitored in busy airspace) or type of flight = X (training is likely out-return or triangle)

Last Edited by Ibra at 02 Aug 19:23
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

Eurocontrol recently introduced restrictions on altitude (YoYo) and lateral dog leg (120deg) during validation

This is worth a new thread. Do you have details?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Eurocontrol recently introduced restrictions on altitude (YoYo) and lateral dog leg (120deg) during validation

This is worth a new thread. Do you have details?

@Peter, it is all in that link I’ve posted above, including the guidelines etc.

https://www.eurocontrol.int/publication/yo-yo-and-sharp-turn-angle-guidelines

EGTR

Peter wrote:

This is worth a new thread. Do you have details?

In short, there have been issues with flight planned back-and-forth altitude changes over short distances and sharp turns which are never intended to be actually flown. Eurocontrol witll now detect and reject such flight plans. If you really intend to fly them, you can force acceptance of the flight plan by including RMK/PROFYYINT or RMK/PROFTURNINT, respectivelty. If you do, Eurocontrol will follow up that you actually did fly according to the flight plan.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

eurocontrol_yo_yo_sharp_turn_angle_guidelines_pdf

This is a complete joke

Most GA flight plans contain steps like that. It is the only way to get a decent route. It’s been like that since for ever and is due to crazy Eurocontrol rules. So now, without admitting their system is broken, they have spent another 1000 man-hours trying to stop people working around their broken system.

It is obviously aimed at airlines but could affect us. I didn’t read every line due to lack of time but how do they propose to deal with terrain e.g. EGKA-LDLO you file at FL100 and then FL170 in the middle. An airline would obviously not need to do that, but we do.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

how do they propose to deal with terrain e.g. EGKA-LDLO you file at FL100 and then FL170 in the middle.

They propose that you file exactly that and your flight plan will be accepted, as it is not a “yoyo” as defined in the very part of the document that you quoted!

And even if it had been, if you actually intend to fly that profile (as you do in this case), you include “RMK/PROFYYINT” in the flight plan and it will be accepted.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 03 Aug 06:03
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

The relevant distance is 300nm, which will still catch many GA flight plans.

It’s another version of this.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

The relevant distance is 300nm, which will still catch many GA flight plans.

The document you quoted says: “descent … followed by a climb…” That’s not what your profile looks like.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Loads of ex-AR routings have steps e.g.

EGKA F100 SFD DCT UNDUG DCT ROTNO DCT KONAN L607 DENOX DCT LITPO DCT ARCKY L607 SUXIM/N0147F140 L607 RUDUS L984 ASKIK Z74 KOSEK L603 RATIM/N0152F100 L603 BESNI DCT OTT/N0148F130 M867 VAROB DCT URAVA/N0152F100 DCT PESUT DCT GIRDA LDRI

For example N Italy wants F130+ or the Nice area wants F150+

More work for somebody to find ways to hack this stuff… Keeps in business all those companies who pay B2B fees to Eurocontrol. Same as this.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

So PROFYYINT should be added to those Autorouter type things and then see whether ATC actually wants you on those altitudes. I expect 99% of the time they don’t want you to change altitude and you wouldn’t be on the filed route anyway.

Netherlands
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