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IFR over the Pyrenees

As a spin-off from EuroGA weather Advice Group on Telegram discussion spun around how to file IFR through the Pyrenees (and other routing issues).

Starting point was flight preparation for a flight where a) Biarritz was below a quite convective cold front and b) altitude restricted to non-oxygen levels for that flight. There “exist” other airways over the Pyrenees but they do not seem to validate on actual routings. In the end one seems to be doomed to routings either over Biarritz or Perpignan.

Routing via Biarritz works fine in any altitude, but regarding it’s geographical position, there’s quite some probability that it is in bad weather.

Just as the starting for this thread, the discussed options included to cancel IFR for the part over the Pyrenees and to re-join IFR thereafter. Is this reasonable? Any experience whether ATC on either side accepts rejoinder to IFR?

Germany

You can file ZZZZ and put RMK but you are supposed to land & takeoff? while that may solve air traffic control routing issue it opens a can of worms in some countries with security concerns and where flight plans are actively monitored

I would not do the latter between Morocco & Spain, I file FL200 IFR to validate on Airways after 7pm, ask to fly DCT at 8kft and leave ATC “to get over it”

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Jun 09:14
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

IFR —> VFR —> IFR works very well over the alps and is CFMU validated

I have often filed the following from LIMJ (Genoa) to LFPN (Paris)

And as it is a single FPL it fixes the border crossing issue

Here is a route example :

LAGEN L50 TOP VFR SPR IFR A1 DJL A6 BALMU R11 KUTAN

Last Edited by Salim at 28 Jun 09:34
LFPN, LFLI, LFPZ

There “exist” other airways over the Pyrenees but they do not seem to validate on actual routings. In the end one seems to be doomed to routings either over Biarritz or Perpignan.

This may feel a bit of stretch but in AutoRouter you can validate any I-FPL, say Stapleford to Rome at 2kft on DCT

You can do it by calling Eurocontrol help desk, the guys in Britigny will file it for you, you can also force any FPL into Eurocontrol with AutoRouter queue after 5 clicks of validate then file, it gets submitted and human person will check it and will likely validate it after 10min as long as you put “human readable” remark, you can even directly force a non validating plan into system without Eurocontrol approval, do as before but you add “RTECOORATC” to remarks (means ATC has approved it), both approaches, require route to be coordinated and approved by ATC, funnily enough you can just file any route and fly what you discussed with ATC…obviously, one is not allowed to mess with this, especially in UK to bypass SRD airways restrictions using DCT, NATS will come after you, AutoRouter and Eurocontrol will hand them your contact details !

Still better than DCT on VFR, it validate but ATC will disagree on you crossing Alpha airspace

Just like using DCT or CAS/OCAS shortcuts, the assumption is the pilot knows what he is doing if he lose comms

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Jun 09:37
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

This may feel a bit of stretch but in AutoRouter you can validate any I-FPL, say Stapleford to Rome at 2kft on DCT

Sure, because it is OCAS. This “works” because Eurocontrol generally ignores these. But if you try to fly it you will get busted (check the route and you will see why).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Sure, because it is OCAS. This “works” because Eurocontrol generally ignores these

Yes that is indeed the case in UK (including LTMA) and France (away from PTMA), under 6kft OCAS you can force DCT anywhere and it will validates, you may or may not fly it

In other countries, you don’t even validate to start with as it’s in CAS, however, you can bypass by phone call to Eurocontrol, or 5 clicks + actual remark + human approval, or 5 clicks + ATC generic remark

You can force validate Stapleford to Rome on DCT inside Alpha/Charlie/Alpha at 20kft, unless you have Lizzie on board you may need good reasons after landing

Last Edited by Ibra at 28 Jun 10:41
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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