Aveling wrote:
I don’t know about SD – maybe someone else can comment?
It works now, you file in SkyDemon outbound and Belgian/French will retrieve & activate, no idea about Dutch FIS, I rarely call them…
Note that there is no requirement for filing FPL when crossing Dutch/Belgian border (also Germany?), it’s only required in UK and French sides (and for some crossing of TMAs), so YMMV when it comes to feeling the pain from AFTN restriction, some pilots won’t even notice it
Yes ‘Dutch ARO’ does not handle V,Z,Y-FPL to UK & Channel Islands as there is no ‘UK ARO’ to talk to, it’s written in AIP ENR1.10, 1.1.2.3.2, they also say the responsibility of manual addressing is on the pilot (no s*** scherlok, although most pilots seems to think it’s not on them), don’t ask me how I know all of this, I had to explain it to UKBF after waiting 1h for their arrival 
1.1.2.3.2 VFR flight plan
The United Kingdom does not support the process for second stage flight plans. Regarding second stage flight plans of flights departing from within the United Kingdom filed at ARO Schiphol, ARO Schiphol is unable to address these flight plans to the subsequent ARO in the United Kingdom. The responsibility for ensuring that the second stage flight plans are correctly filed and addressed, and that supplementary information is kept up to date, lies with the pilot. ARO Schiphol is willing to assist pilots by fully addressing these flight plans (workload permitting) if the correct EET for FIR boundaries are inserted in item 18, however, ARO Schiphol cannot be held responsible for any failures that might occur.
I normally fly IFR to the UK to avoid all of this, but recently flew a VFR leg back from the UK to the Netherlands. Had a flight plan filed through the Dutch side of things, this indeed did not work. The UK departure airport did not have the plan.
I called the Dutch ARO and she explained that in their view it’s the job of the other country to distribute the plan to the right sectors/airports. So I think they address it to something generic in the UK. Sounds very similar to the issue @Skylane-pilot had with Norway vs France. They solved it right there on the phone, so they do have a way to send it to the airport directly it’s just not standard procedure.
Peter wrote:
What is a “second stage flight plan”?
No idea what that means but from other texts I understand it’s the VFR part of “Mixed FPL” with VFR/IFR rules changes, like Z & Y variants (including those where the IFR part is in Eurocontrol)
IMHO that is BS because Z and Y definitely work in the UK.
Well, the flight plan “works” but ATC don’t support stuff like popup clearances into CAS. But ATC don’t really support those in a lot of places.
As I wrote before, NL wanted flight plans by FAX for years, and the only possible explanation was to preserve jobs. The UK was doing the same thing, indirectly, with the FBUs (closed in 2009) being very keen on faxed.
I think the Dutch are far to worried about VFR from ZZZZ in NL and VFR to ZZZZ in UK, reading the whole AIP ENR1.10, 1.1.2.3.2 seems to sing a whole song around that, obviously, there have been cases of drugs, smuggling…on NL/UK VFR flights, especially with people flying to ZZZZ in UK, maybe this what drives that AIP change to have a human operator to “work on it” or “file it” with their proprietary systems than the AFTN? but then they decided to make whole dog breakfast out of that !
PS: I doubt the guys who were caught in UK from NL “full of charlie” had a single clue how SkyDemon flight plans are filed or processed
AFAIK the handling of VFR flight plans has not changed in decades, apart from the original AFTN (a telex network) having been replaced with high speed links.
So they are susceptible to disappearing for the same reasons which always existed.
Maybe someone working in ATC can post whether anything has changed in their user interface?
AFAIK, they did exchange the TTX communication with more modern equipment, but still use the old telex syntax = at least you can send a SMS2FAX with the FPL string in Telex style directly into the system.
The main point is that there is no database that these VFR FPs go into. Each country runs its own one, and with different rules for distribution, ranging from good in France to poor/nonexistent in the UK. Described here.
So basically your VFR FP ends up on a “nail in the wall” at each addressed location, and it is somebody’s job to check that nail for the day’s FPs. That is literally how it is at airfields which don’t have a “computer terminal” with access to the database. How do they get the FP to start with? By fax! Nowadays by email; they print out the email and put the bit of paper on the nail in the wall.
The system is great for job protection / job demarcation.
Used SkyDemon to file a VFR flightplan from ZZZZ Baxterley to EHTX/Texel last Friday 17/6 and had no problems. AMS info and Texel had our details.
Was not able to use the ‘compulsory’ gendec.eu site for Dutch GAR as it will not accept just ‘ZZZZ’ and they need to manually add the ‘ZZZZ Baxterley’ airfield name but has not been done 4 days later. Used the SD option and worked fine.
As usual Texel were a great example of how an airfield should be run
