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US pilot moving to London

tmo wrote:

More often than not, they aren’t even FIS, they are just a random dude that happens to be near a radio, or someone else in the pattern. It is called Air/Ground Radio, the callsign is usually “Airfield Name Radio”.

Some argue that A/G can issue clearances on the ground, but in reality I believe they are non-binding, and thus advisories, not clearances.
Most agree that A/G cannot issue clearances in the air, but they do issue advisories, based on their view.

Air/Ground (callsign “XYZ Radio”) cannot issue any instructions or clearances whatsoever. The best ones (e.g. White Waltham) will respond if you ask them something (e.g. you report inbound asking for the runway in use) but otherwise it is largely aircraft reporting their intentions for the benefit of others on frequency and the ‘ground’ does hardly any talking. The not so great ones (I can think of a few) fill the air with chatter because they like sounding important, e.g. you report downwind and the ground operator totally unnecessarily says “roger, report final” or whatever he feels like.

FIS (callsign “XZY Information”) is like tower ATC but cannot issue any clearances and can only issue instructions to aircraft on the ground. The person doing it is called a FISO (although sometimes they are a qualified ATCO, doing a FISO job). When taxiing you gotta do exactly what he says just like ATC, but your takeoff and landing instructions come in the form “take off your discretion” / “land your discretion” to which you reply roger (and get on with it) but you cannot do either unless he says those words. In the air they are advisory-only but most like to gabble on telling you to report downwind and all that stuff, so just humour them.

EGLM & EGTN

tmo wrote:

Some argue that A/G can issue clearances on the ground, but in reality I believe they are non-binding, and thus advisories, not clearances.

A/G in UK can’t issue clearances not on ground nor in the air
AFIS (FISO) in UK are GND ATC and do FIS for RWY and ATZ

A/G can do the following 1/ rely clearances from ATC 2/ close runway after surface inspection, 3/ some have tools to manage flight plans or trigger SAR, 4/ some can give unofficial weather (wind & ceiling & QNH) and 5/ manage airfield on behalf of the owner

In theory, you can’t talk air-to-air directly to other aircraft on AG frequency (maybe there is a rule somewhere?), so it’s different than gliding frequency or some CTAF/UNICOM

PS: I was with a friend when he was refused takeoff in AG airfield as the ‘tower AG guy’ decided to close the runway due to low visibility and emergency truck being unavailable, my friend decided he was probably right and taxied back, I did not open my mouth on that one, I was a pax in the backseat, not even paying for my flight share

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Jan 15:24
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

A/G in UK can’t issue clearances not on ground nor in the air

Practically, that is wrong, because the A/G guy is acting as an agent for and on behalf of the landowner, so if you disobey him, you have not committed a civil or criminal offence, but you will get kicked off the airfield (which is private land), which is most cases is not a desired outcome since, like everywhere in the world, the landowner calls the tune

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Practically, that is wrong, because the A/G guy is acting as an agent for and on behalf of the landowner, so if you disobey him, you have not committed a civil or criminal offence, but you will get kicked off the airfield (which is private land)

Yes, I agree it’s in point 5/

Same as getting ‘departure clearance’ from the handlers…

Last Edited by Ibra at 19 Jan 15:42
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Graham wrote:

3. Rental, even of G-reg aircraft, is generally a pretty restrictive setup. With a few exceptions prices are high, aircraft condition/selection/availability is poor and freedom is limited. Don’t expect a “here are the keys, bring it back next Tuesday and don’t crash it” situation. Checkouts will be required, likely for any individual type you wish to fly, and currency requirements will be tight.

I see, that’s good to know. There are also a some places in the US that act like that, though I’ve been able to find some which offer more freedom.

Assuming I can’t find a good rental place, any advice on finding existing syndicates (I assume this is the same as a “partnership” in the US) looking for another member? Is it just an “ask around the airport” type of thing, or is there some website or something where they typically advertise?

United Kingdom

flyingmatt wrote:

Assuming I can’t find a good rental place, any advice on finding existing syndicates (I assume this is the same as a “partnership” in the US) looking for another member? Is it just an “ask around the airport” type of thing, or is there some website or something where they typically advertise?

Yep, it’s pretty much a case of ask around. White Waltham has a notice board where shares for sale are advertised (and there are always some) but I believe the most sought-after ones change hands quietly without being advertised. Other places are much the same, but the ‘smaller’ they are (in terms of pilots and aircraft) the fewer opportunities there will be.

Syndicate, partnership, whatever you want to call it is just joint-ownership.

EGLM & EGTN

Peter wrote:

Practically, that is wrong, because the A/G guy is acting as an agent for and on behalf of the landowner, so if you disobey him, you have not committed a civil or criminal offence, but you will get kicked off the airfield (which is private land), which is most cases is not a desired outcome since, like everywhere in the world, the landowner calls the tune

Yes but that’s not an aviation matter, that’s an ‘our trainset, our rules’ matter.

It won’t always get you kicked off the airfield because often the over-zealous A/G guy is reluctantly tolerated by the airfield operator because otherwise they’d have to pay a member of staff!

EGLM & EGTN
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