Ibra wrote:
Usually only +10kts tailwind will prevent a straight-in landing, it’s way powerful than any legal or moral questionFor circling, it comes with risks as visibility and lights are expected to be excellent outside clouds along runway axis, in some places visual references and lights will disappear once you go to one side in IMC or Night
@Ibra, my understanding (again what I have been taught) is that you need the minima for the VPT. If you do not have visual at VPT, you’re not cleared to land. ATC will clear you for an approach which will be an ILS/RNAV but does not clear you to land. As there is no ATC you cannot do a straight in so that reverts to a VPT with the resulting heights. If there is no prescribed track, circle to land minima without VPT apply. Again, my understanding based on what I was taught in MEP IR
Just one other point regarding circling, circling in the US is not authorized if their isn’t either an LNAV option on an LPV or LNAV/VNAV or a Localizer option on an ILS. One uses the NPA procedure if they intend to circle.
NCYankee wrote:
Just one other point regarding circling, circling in the US is not authorized if their isn’t either an LNAV option on an LPV or LNAV/VNAV or a Localizer option on an ILS. One uses the NPA procedure if they intend to circle.
That’s interesting and definitely not the case in Europe. Why would you fly a NPA (which by default is less precise at least in theory) to increase risk?
Just one other point regarding circling, circling in the US is not authorized if their isn’t either an LNAV option on an LPV or LNAV/VNAV or a Localizer option on an ILS. One uses the NPA procedure if they intend to circle.
Got it, I guess in pure “3D ILS only”, you have to depart at DH/MAPt back to sky with no hesitation 
due to the geometry of approach and obstacle clearances, the approach will not be accessed for flat obstacles surface unless it has some 2D variant under with MDH/MAPt that one can default to for circling?
While if you have 2D NPA fallback behind, you can fly it in 2D or 3D and it should be protected along a flat surface that touch the MAPT
This indeed makes a descent to 3D minima before recovering to 2D circling a tricky business at least from a designer perspective but I wonder if this again relate to TERPS vs PANSOPS and has to do with VDA visual segment on straight-in penetrating obstacles that are fine for precision landing but does not have the required circling margins on wide flat area…
I think most of the posts here are from French pilots who are referencing this French regulation which, apart from being possibly unique in Europe or even the world, has no obvious demonstrable safety case, because you can do an approach at from the DH see the entire airport area, and are able to check for traffic. There is also the radio 
Regardless of towered or non-towered, if you descend below the CTL MDA, you are not authorized to climb back up and then circle. You are in violation of 91.175 if you do so.
I don’t quite get that. It makes you illegal if you fly a circling approach, descend to land, and then either lose the required runway environment visual references, or something else goes wrong.
my understanding (again what I have been taught) is that you need the minima for the VPT. If you do not have visual at VPT, you’re not cleared to land. ATC will clear you for an approach which will be an ILS/RNAV but does not clear you to land. As there is no ATC you cannot do a straight in so that reverts to a VPT with the resulting heights. If there is no prescribed track, circle to land minima without VPT apply. Again, my understanding based on what I was taught in MEP IR
On sunny days that means breaking from ILS above published VAC height for visual circuit? not even at VPT/MVL minima…
I know some places can’t fly IAP for ATO CPL and MEIR training without ATC/AFIS? but if some do it that way I am very keen to get my MEIR flying DH > 1000ft agl, it reminds me of the ILS at Lydd
Again maybe pilots, instructors & examiners interpretation of this is related to the local environment? I got one answer at Toussus once but maybe at Annecy things are different
I don’t quite get that. It makes you illegal if you fly a circling approach, descend to land, and then either lose the required runway environment visual references, or something else goes wrong
I think he meant, FAA explicitly state that you can’t fly down to 200ft on straigh-in approach minima then climb to 400ft for circling minima to land on opposite runway
On sunny days that means breaking from ILS above published VAC height for visual circuit? not even at VPT/MVL minima…
I know some places can’t fly IAP for ATO CPL and MEIR training without ATC/AFIS? but if some do it that way I am very keen to get my MEIR flying DH > 1000ft agl, it reminds me of the ILS at Lydd
I cannot work out what that means.
The “French MVL” prohibits you from descending bellow the visual circuit hight if cloud-base is higher than VFR circuit as published in VAC
Hence, if you fly an ILS to L2K on a sunny and no one in the tower, you have to stop ILS at 1000ft agl and join the circuit…
All I am saying is that makes ILS training and exams on sunny days without ATS a walk in the park I don’t dare to say it’s pointless but I really think 1kft MDH is not applicable if you are not landing (otherwise how most of training & exams are done these days with no TWR ATC )
@LFHNflightstudent, the reason I answered the way I did re descending to ILS minima and then going missed is that Ibra asked specifically about flight training without landing. During my MEIR training and the flight test the wheels very rarely touched the ground because ot was the procedures and how to fly them we were learning and not how to land the plane, we had already covered that in the MEP rating.
The ATS were always very accommodating when they could be.
@NCYankee the MAP here is also part of the approach but as I wrote this was for training purposes. There is no other reason to do what I outlined.
Peter, how many IAPs in the UK are there which can be flown without ATC or AFIS present.
how many IAPs in the UK are there which can be flown without ATC or AFIS present.
DIY IAPs are legal in the UK. You can do it to your farm strip
As for “proper airports”, with ATC or AFIS, here they mostly shut completely if not manned.
The thread topic is quite specific though – to do with a circle to land (a procedure under IFR).
