I flew yesterday with the aeroclub’s chief pilot, to evaluate what I need to do for the PPL checkride. (Predictably my biggest problem is flying like an experienced pilot).
We did a power off landing and I was a lot too high on long final. No problem, I asked him if it was OK to slip (“glissade”) and he said yes. So I entered it as I always have and was taught by numerous instructors: left aileron, right rudder, blended to enter the slip. He grabbed the controls and muttered all sorts of imprecations about spins and how dangerous it was.
Turns out, on the ground, what he wanted was to enter a coordinated right turn, then a coordinated left turn, and only apply right rudder when in the turn.
I looked up slips in French this morning, and discovered that they are no longer taught to PPL students here, and according to the comment on the thread, not in the UK either. Is that so (for both countries)?
Received wisdom seems to be that if you get a slip the tiniest bit wrong, you will spin and fall out of the sky.
Thoughts from French and Britihs (and any other) pilots?
John
I’ve recently finished my UK PPL and covered neither slips nor spins.
Both are on the “to do” list for sure.
I wrote why I think that is in another thread.
They now teach the “S” instead but they also set more emphasis on the go round. This advice to instructors appears to have come about following several accidents plus a DGAC study.
I am still trying to find the study but everyone that would possibly tell me where to find it, I seem to keep missing at the club. Following the July, August holiday, everyone is now desperately trying to get some good flying in before winter gets here..
John, I’ve been taught in the UK (after my PPL) how to do slips, and instructor told that they don’t teach – in case of a mistake a spin can be developed easily (if you lose speed).
What I’ve always done on PFLs when I’m too high I was just pushing the nose down even further – all is OK as long as you are within the flaps speed.
johnh wrote:
Received wisdom seems to be that if you get a slip the tiniest bit wrong, you will spin and fall out of the sky.
Keep the speed up and there’s no problem!
Integrated schools do teach slips but in the context of a cross wind technique, not to ‘rescue’ an unstabilised approach. Because the student is expected to go to an aircraft with under slung engines, there is a lot of emphasis on establishing wings level on landing. The high aspect ratio wings of modern airlines allow a slip of around 2 or 3 degrees, so very subtle. There was a time slips were frowned upon and crosswind technique was strictly using the crab technique. My impression is this is less cast in stone these days, and certainly even the MPL programmes include some lessons with slips.
The required A-UPRT for a type rating will demonstrate a departure from a slip. In some aircraft, and this was the case in the old rag-and-tube tailwheel trainers, the departure will probably be over the top, ie not towards the lower wing, and be relatively benign, and easily recoverable. In some of the A-UPRT types the departure is quite sharp, even sharper than in a skidding turn, and past vertical into an incipient spin. The student will note the 1,000 foot altitude loss and may prefer not to use the technique aggressively.
Like all these things the instructor should be able to provide the context for the type. Am not sure you can land a Pitts, unless possessed with second sight, except by slipping on approach.
We teach slips in Norway. Not to fix an unstabilized approach, but for emergency landings.
Am not sure you can land a Pitts, unless possessed with second sight, except by slipping on approach.
You most certainly can – this was how I was taught. Power off it works just fine, final at 100 mph you can see over the nose. The descent rate does get your attention and the timing of the flare has to be correct to within about 0.2 S. My instructor’s theory was that you have to know how to land power off anyway, so you may as well do it every time.
Back on topic, I’ve never tried stalling while in a slip. I’ll have to try it (at altitude) and see how it goes.
You have to work at it to lose 1000 feet in a spin. In the Pitts it was 500 ft/turn, no reason why you couldn’t use it for the base-to-final turn (though I confess I never have).
Good question. As a Candian I learned forward and side slips during my training, as well as spins. I have susquently done loads of both. During my commercial license we did the precision power off spot landings, and slipping is just another tool to get you there if necessary (if allowed in the POH, with flaps, etc.).
The original poster’s comments about the right turn then left turn prior to establishing slip are very similar to the training I recieved for forward slips; the basis of the initial turns was to set the aircraft on a heading where the new slip heading would be the same as your heading prior to the start of the manuver. Thus, you would neither be pulling nor pushing the elevator to adjust your course when in the slip (in addition to the slip inputs), and a spin would be unlikely.
In most cases, for experienced pilots slipping on an approach, I don’t think this is necessary. For example, if you are on a straight approach course and start slipping to the left, you might need to unload the elevator (or even push down) to maintain your course (to the right), depending on how effective the rudder is in your particular aircraft. If you are unloading the elevator, I consider you are unlikely to spin (and you also might pick up speed). However, if you mess things up and need to go further left, then you can either bank more (if you are high enough), start pulling on the elevator, or come out of the slip and turn in a coordinated fashion. This is probably what the instructor was worried about…. being in a slip and yanking on the elevator, with the incumbant risk of a spin. Conversely, it might be nicer if you do the pre-turns as you are unlikely to have as much variation in speed, and might have a ‘smoother’ approach.
If you are doing a typical left traffic pattern, the a left slip is just going to help you get around the turn, although caution is warranted as you are slipping (uncoordinated) and pulling on the elevator. I always kept one eye on the air speed…. just to make sure I was well above the stall speed. Of course what speed you are actually going is a good question, as it seems likely there is a significant airspeed error when you are really slipping! This might all be a bit moot, as when I was flying a ragwing aircraft in a hard slip, I generally considered myself not so much to be flying, but falling to the ground…. recovering from the slip with sufficient altitude for a smooth entry to the final approach and flair, I would always make sure that I had carried enough airspeed.
Which leads to anther question… arriving near the ground with excess speed in a non flap equipped aircraft, I would ocassionally bleed off the speed with yaw. I can see this as being dangerous as you are pulling the elevator to flare (or hold off) and having your speed bleed off. If you stall, it is very likley to spin. I would always make sure the aircraft was flying coordinated by the time I had slowed to about 1.3Vs (or more). But I can see the risk here, and may do less of this in the future.
Unfortunately, the “art of flying” is dying… tailwheel skills, slips, aerobatics, crosswind handling, etc. All these basic flying skills should be required from FIs, period. And be taught.
Maybe too much time being mesmerised by all that glass in the panel, playing the airline pilot. Virtual flying for most: Aaaah, pushing the knob labeled AP, what a relief…
Flying the very honorable J3C Piper Cub for instance (you know, the cute yellow hi winger with cylinder heads hanging out in the breeze) will require a slip to be performed to land in any kind of short (yes, short like 200m or 600’) strip, the more so with any kind of obstacle in the approach path.
Who knows, the “art of flying”, and slipping, could save your life one day…
