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IFT (instrument flight time) & IFR

You can include IMCr dual as well (works with UK PPL but it may bounce if you have a Spanish PPL )

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Alpha_Floor wrote:

What the regulation (or at least the UK CAA) require as minimum hours on a CB-IR training course is: instrument time under instruction, for example:

A multi-engine competency-based modular IR course shall include at least 45
hours instrument time under instruction

This is getting complicated since Brexit. We now have not only FAA and EASA definitions, but also UK CAA definitions. Perhaps it is time to run separate threads, one for each jurisdiction.

LSZK, Switzerland

I have a question somewhat related to this, regarding the time to log as IFR time.

It has been remotely discussed on the last page by @Pirho and @Alpha_Floor. But I am not sure if I conclude this the same way.

Let’s say I start on an airport that has instrument flight facilities. I have to ask for startup and taxi clearance and so on.

As we all know, at present (year 2022) my “flight time” according to EASA starts “off-blocks”, that is when my aircraft starts to move from the parking position on the way to depart. But when does my instrument time start that I can log in my logbook?

I would say it can be the same as flight time if departure and arrival airfield provide such procedures.

Now I’m interested further in time that counts towards the time for instrument rating.

Alpha_Floor wrote:

At my ATO, the instructor said the UK CAA wouldn’t accept block time as instrument time under instruction because they’d argue that the time on the ground taxiing can’t possibly be instrument time under instruction, even though it definitely is IFR time and it also is dual time under instruction

And @Cobalt added, that time rolling on ground cannot be instrument time under instruction. Is there any reference?
Edit: Found it: FCL.010

So is it true that I would have to log separately a) flight time (Total time) b) IFR time (identical to flight time in the case as above) and c) instrument time under instruction
Edit: Seems so, Appendix 6 to Part-FCL.

There’s no open question left, but I leave it here, maybe some other has the same questions.

Last Edited by UdoR at 29 Nov 20:37
Germany

@UdoR, IMC time starts when you enter IMC (or put the hood on). IFR flight time I start either as I move off at the IFR (be that under SID or just omnidirectional), as long as departure was IFR. If it was a VFR airport, I start logging IFR time shortly after takeoff.

EGTR

arj1 wrote:

If it was a VFR airport, I start logging IFR time shortly after takeoff.

Actually correct would be to start it at time defined by ATC – usually at IFR pickup point or passing certain altitude.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

UdoR wrote:

As we all know, at present (year 2022) my “flight time” according to EASA starts “off-blocks”, that is when my aircraft starts to move from the parking position on the way to depart. But when does my instrument time start that I can log in my logbook?

There is no text in part-FCL that explains this, but the AMC to FCL.050 (Recording of flight timei) has a sample log book page. There is an entry for an IFR flight where the logged IFR time is equal to the flight (block) time. Following that example I always log the full block time as IFR on an IFR flight.

This does make sense at IFR procedures begin already when you taxi with clearances, departure briefings…

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 29 Nov 21:58
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Emir wrote:

arj1 wrote: If it was a VFR airport, I start logging IFR time shortly after takeoff.

Actually correct would be to start it at time defined by ATC – usually at IFR pickup point or passing certain altitude.

Hi Emir, in the UK OCAS it is a different story…

EGTR

Following that example I always log the full block time as IFR on an IFR flight.

That should be the case on I plan while Y and Z definitely have shorter IFR time.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Airborne_Again wrote:

Following that example I always log the full block time as IFR on an IFR flight.

Yes, so during training one (me) has to log total time, IFR time and “instrument time under instruction”, that is not equivalent to IMC time, but time airborne.

I have no column for that instruction time in my logbook

In the EASA flight log example to me it looks like they’re suggesting that I should note that time together with a note that it is instruction time towards the rating under “remarks” of the logbook:

From here: https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/Part-FCL.pdf
Page 39


(10) column 12: the ‘remarks’ column may be used to record details of the
flight at the holder’s discretion. The following entries, however, should
always be made:
(i) instrument flight time undertaken as part of the training for a
licence or rating;
(ii) […]
Germany

Well taxi for departure or after arrival in Cat-I/II/III conditions can’t be logged as VFR and B747 full of pax doing taxi in CAVOK can’t log VFR

You will still come across pilots, instructors and examiners in GA space who are damn convinced you can’t log IFR on the ground

Last Edited by Ibra at 29 Nov 22:56
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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