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Mandatory / minimal IFR equipment for Europe

Snoopy wrote:

As I understand it, a MMEL/MEL isn’t required for NCO or in particular for IFR flight.

That’s true. It was somewhat relevant before part-ML as pilots were not allowed to begin a flight under part-NCO with any equipment inoperative even if that equipment wasn’t legally (or operationally) required for the flight, unless they had a MEL or a mechanic had determined that the flight could be carried out safely. Needless to say, this rule was essentially ignored.

With part-ML, pilots can now legally determine for themselves if it is safe to begin a flight with non-required equipment inoperative without using a MEL.

NCO operators can’t get a MEL approved by an authority.

That I didn’t know. Do you have a reference?

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 12 Oct 08:27
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

That I didn’t know. Do you have a reference?

Maybe along this?

NCO = MEL not required but a MEL may get established and the NAA should get notified (not an approval)
CAT = MEL mandatory and operation in accordance with MEL all the time and the NAA approves MMEL

https://part-aero.com/en/#part-nco/NCO.GEN.155
https://part-aero.com/en/#part-cat/CAT.IDE.A.105

As private operator, if you don’t establish your own MEL no need to notify there is little value for an NCO operator to have one (RVSM?), so back to my comment earlier, keep it simple

Last Edited by Ibra at 12 Oct 08:22
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

In addition to the discussion about the MEL: For many of our small airplanes the POH does also list mandatory equipment which needs to be serviceable when commencing a flight.

Germany

Malibuflyer wrote:

For many of our small airplanes the POH does also list mandatory equipment which needs to be serviceable when commencing a flight.

AFAIU unless they are listed in the limitations section of the POH, that list is not legally binding?

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Airborne_Again wrote:

AFAIU unless they are listed in the limitations section of the POH, that list is not legally binding?

That is my understanding as well, but typically they are in the limitation section – and this includes also the placards described in this section!

Germany

Yes there are legally binding limitations in section limitation of POH (Chap2. under “KINDS OF OPERATION” MEL/KOEL for EASA/FAA), they are just copy/past of those in TCDS

For C172M, like most aircraft before 1980, that section is rather “light”, the problem is solved as far as that corner is concerned compared to what you read in recent POH (SR20 by FAA or DA40 by EASA)

In my experience, the question of minimal/mandatory IFR equipment only arises when one talks about doing ATO IR training in aircraft as things are way tighter, even the runway used for “IR ATO training” has to be approved by CAA !

https://part-aero.com/fr/#part-aro/ARO.OPS.205

Last Edited by Ibra at 12 Oct 10:32
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

Ibra wrote:

For C172M, like most aircraft before 1980, that section is rather “light”, the problem is solved as far as that corner is concerned compared to what you read in recent POH (SR20 by FAA or DA40 by EASA)

Very troublesome when manufacturers introduce requirements that go beyond what is required by the airframe or flight characteristics.

E.g. the requirement of having a transponder for night VFR and IFR flight in a DA40. Or the requirement of a VOR receiver for night VFR or second COM for IFR. (Unless there is some particular characteristic of the DA40 that makes COM failure more likely than on other aircraft.)

It looks like Diamond Aircraft picked national requirements for equipment at the time the aircraft was certified. From a safety point of view a GPS is arguably much more important than a VOR receiver for night VFR.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

gallois wrote:

Secondly, it calls for 2 radios to be installed for IFR. We discussed this in a previous thread and came to the conclusion that only one is required.

By the general rules, yes. But if the POH has an limitation that two are required, then unfortunately that is what you need to have. Unless someone makes a “Single COM STC” for the DA40.

Although in France I believe 2 are required to fly IFR.

In France only one radio is required as this is the EASA general rule for light aircraft and France as an EU member can’t make its own rules on top of EASA regulations.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 12 Oct 10:38
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

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