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Eurocontrol CTOT / airport slot assignments for light GA and how to get around them

I used to have access with the Heathrow one when I was working on the ground with BA. But whilst I am familiar with the term ACDM and how it works, my main question was why I’d need to know anything? Other than I know what TSAT and CTOT are in terms of CFMU and how it appeared on ACDM portals. Presume the airports/ATC itself would let me know if there was an issue.

Airborne_Again wrote:

ACDM means “Airport Collaborative Decision Making”. AFAIU it is a set of procedures aiming at making the departure handling of a flight more efficient and predictable by involving all parties (flight operator, ground handler, ATC etc.) in the planning. Indirectly it will affect flow control by making it more likely that the aircraft will depart on its slot.
Last Edited by pilotrobbie at 05 Oct 11:09
Qualified PPL with IR SP/SE PBN
EGSG, United Kingdom

Take this as an example…
pilotrobbie wrote:

I used to have access with the Heathrow one when I was working on the ground with BA. But whilst I am familiar with the term ACDM and how it works, my main question was why I’d need to know anything? Other than I know what TSAT and CTOT are in terms of CFMU and how it appeared on ACDM portals.

You basically need to check the IAP to see what it means for the airport you will be flying into, how you ask for slots, handling etc what address to contact. Which is why the phone option is rarely the right one to get everything coordinated. Airports like Zurich etc all use and implement the same system. As painful as it sounds, they basically take the ‘’measure twice, cut once’’ approach which means everything works and is coordinated, including marshaller etc to get you onto stand. It also (a lot of the time) means the handler has direct access to slot delivery etc…

Last Edited by LFHNflightstudent at 05 Oct 11:14
LFHN - Bellegarde - Vouvray France

LFHNflightstudent wrote:

Take this as an example…

I am going to install my CFMU token on my laptop then haha! Because then I can at least check where my flight plan sits in the system.

LFHNflightstudent wrote:

You basically need to check the IAP to see what it means for the airport you will be flying into, how you ask for slots, handling etc what address to contact. Which is why the phone option is rarely the right one to get everything coordinated. Airports like Zurich etc all use and implement the same system. As painful as it sounds, they basically take the ‘’measure twice, cut once’’ approach which means everything works and is coordinated, including marshaller etc to get you onto stand. It also (a lot of the time) means the handler has direct access to slot delivery etc…

It seems like JetAviation are aware that some people go the free way for SLOTs. Based on the wording in there email, It seems like “If you want, but that will be 50EUR”.

Which makes sense on why everyone is saying EDDL is 149EUR to visit. Unless you ring up the SLOT Coordination Centre? That 50EUR could be spent on me having a better meal….

boscomantico wrote:

Exactly. But only if you do it on the day of the flight (not sooner). But don’t worry, just call them first thing in the morning and kindly just ask the person to put an arrival slot

So I’ve got my quote from EDDL GAT (JetAviation) and it’s reasonable. They’ve put 12-12 (But It’ll be less than that) if I go onto HAM. Frankfurt Slot Coordination only on the day?

Qualified PPL with IR SP/SE PBN
EGSG, United Kingdom

Yes, at least this is how it was a few years ago, i.e. German AIS can or will only put in a slot for you on the day of the flight.
Otherwise, you can also do it all yourself here, but I don’t even know how clunky it is.

In additiom: one thing students never get to see during their IR training, but is essential for practical IFR flying in Europe, is the ATFCM Users Manual. It’s mostly dreadful, and you don’t need to read/comprehend all chapters, but knowing basically how dealing with slots works is essential (unless you want to lose time). But since you have just passed the European IR theory, I confide in your ability to learn such stuff…

Last Edited by boscomantico at 05 Oct 11:53
Mainz (EDFZ), Germany

I think the German AIS has now changed? https://fluko.org/en/

For General Aviaton: +49 69 257 585 120 (24 hours) E-Mail (SCR, GCR only): [email protected]
I checked out that website, and it’s only available to NL and DE pilots? I can apply if needs must though as that’s handy for all the airports, including IBZ ;)

I am very familiar with ATFCM as I used CFMU at BA, and now have my own access. Just need to get my token onto my laptop rather than desktop, then all good to go. But yeah there wasn’t much in the IR training for practical IFR flying in Europe. But this little jolly should be okay :)

boscomantico wrote:

Yes, at least this is how it was a few years ago, i.e. German AIS can or will only put in a slot for you on the day of the flight.
Otherwise, you can also do it all yourself here, but I don’t even know how clunky it is.

In additiom: one thing students never get to see during their IR training, but is essential for practical IFR flying in Europe, is the ATFCM Users Manual. It’s mostly dreadful, and you don’t need to read/comprehend all chapters, but knowing basically how dealing with slots works is essential (unless you want to lose time). But since you have just passed the European IR theory, I confide in your ability to learn such stuff…

Qualified PPL with IR SP/SE PBN
EGSG, United Kingdom

No, AIS and Fluko (slot coordination office) are two very different things.

The point is exactly that: if you want to get your slots yourself from the Fluko, you need to your request in the dreaded GCR format. See here for the (German only) instruction notes…

If you go via the German AIS, then you don’t need this. You just tell the guy what you want and he will put it into the system for you. I don’t think you can call the Fluko telephone number and ask them the same thing.

You familiar with this (from the autorouter wiki)?

Last Edited by boscomantico at 05 Oct 12:59
Mainz (EDFZ), Germany

Isn’t this thread a mixup of airport slots and enroute slots?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

boscomantico wrote:

No, AIS and Fluko (slot coordination office) are two very different things.

The point is exactly that: if you want to get your slots yourself from the Fluko, you need to your request in the dreaded GCR format. See here for the (German only) instruction notes…

If you go via the German AIS, then you don’t need this. You just tell the guy what you want and he will put it into the system for you. I don’t think you can call the Fluko telephone number and ask them the same thing.

The only reason I want to email/phone ahead is so I can be better at planning. On the day, I presume is okay, just another planning task. Presume if I can do the GCR request, I’ll get the same result? A SLOT? Is the AIS at Frankfurt a multi lingo? I don’t’ speak German.

Yeah I’ve seen those things on CFMU. I usually go by TSAT and CTOT – in CFMU all that really concerns you is those two bits if information against your flight. If it improves, it improves. But I’ve never had a TSAT/CTOT yet. I have heard of previous IR students at Stapleford missing a slot and getting a delay of 2 hours….

Last Edited by pilotrobbie at 05 Oct 13:36
Qualified PPL with IR SP/SE PBN
EGSG, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Isn’t this thread a mixup of airport slots and enroute slots?

You mean of airport slots and ATC slots? No, but both topics have been discussed above and indeed, we should try to keep them separate, to avoid confusion.
Unfortunately, when flying to EDDL or EDDH, a pilot 100% needs to deal with airports slots, and will 80% likely have to deal with ATC slots (and thus, A-CDM).

Mainz (EDFZ), Germany

pilotrobbie wrote:

Is the AIS at Frankfurt a multi lingo? I don’t’ speak German.

Of course, they speak English.

Mainz (EDFZ), Germany
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