eddsPeter wrote:
file a prepared ir flightplan in flight
I’ve once overheard such communication but it lasted too long and practically jammed all other communication. I don’t think it’s practical to submit complicated IFR plan over the radio.
eddsPeter wrote:
I think this was meIt was an SR22 – you still think so
? But otherwise it sounds pretty much like what I overheard that day. If so, my impression that the pilot had no real grasp of what the controller was talking about, seems to have been false…
Maybe the better solution for such a flight will be in future to depart vfr and according to EASA rules file a prepared ir flightplan in flight
If you are departing from an IFR-Airport like EDDS (with ATC or an AFISO), the safe way is obviously to fly IFR from the beginning. Some places let you do a “Visual Departure”, usually to the terminating waypoint of the SID, cutting short the departure while putting you into the system right away (although you are technically VFR until reaching the MVA).
As far as I know, they have to accept it
ATC has to accept the flightplan, but this plan can also be subject to flow control measures. The infamous flight by a group of airplanes to the Tempelhof farewell party comes to mind: They were unable to get arrival slots, then departed VFR into (allegedly known) bad Wx and tried to airfile. IIRC they got clearances in the end, but had to answer a lot of questions afterwards and were at least threatened a hefty fine.
IIRC they got clearances in the end,
One cannot ever plan a flight in the hope of getting an IFR clearance enroute due to bad wx. Well, it’s OK if you have a Plan C as well.
I can think of two pilots who killed themselves while trying to get one (both UK pilots in France actually, though it could be anywhere) and you can bet it will take too long right when you need it. They didn’t have a Plan C, and the main nail in their coffin, so to speak, was not carrying oxygen.
I don’t think it’s practical to submit complicated IFR plan over the radio.
Or a VFR one. You can just bet that ATC will be busy when you need to do it. The obligation may exist in theory but ATC workload always trumps any such obligation.
With an unusual level of ELP6, the ATCO said …
This cracks me up everytime I read it 
pilotrobbie wrote:
Presume calling this from UK? AIS: +49 69 78072500 will get me my IFR slots?
Exactly. But only if you do it on the day of the flight (not sooner). But don’t worry, just call them first thing in the morning and kindly just ask the person to put an arrival slot
for EDDx into the system for you for xx:xx UTC. That’s it. Hamburg also requires an IFR slot.
By the way, both at EDDL and EDDH, you will also get in contact with A-CDM procedures and all the related and insdistinguishable acronyms. Have fun!
EDDH does indeed not seem to publish contact details for the GAT… interesting.
ACDM is CFMU related Jargon right? How comes you can’t ring a few days before? I have to contact the GAT (JetAviation the day before (PPR 24HR))
If you can find the correct contact for EDDH that would be great? I am struggling a little but would prefer to have contact with them in advanced.
I am very keen if the prices aren’t too inflated. I.e. 100EUR +
boscomantico wrote:
Exactly. But only if you do it on the day of the flight (not sooner). But don’t worry, just call them first thing in the morning and kindly just ask the person to put an arrival slot
for EDDx into the system for you for xx:xx UTC. That’s it. Hamburg also requires an IFR slot.By the way, both at EDDL and EDDH, you will also get in contact with A-CDM procedures and all the related and insdistinguishable acronyms. Have fun!
EDDH does indeed not seem to publish contact details for the GAT… interesting.
pilotrobbie wrote:
ACDM is CFMU related Jargon right?
ACDM means “Airport Collaborative Decision Making”. AFAIU it is a set of procedures aiming at making the departure handling of a flight more efficient and predictable by involving all parties (flight operator, ground handler, ATC etc.) in the planning. Indirectly it will affect flow control by making it more likely that the aircraft will depart on its slot.
I used to have access with the Heathrow one when I was working on the ground with BA. But whilst I am familiar with the term ACDM and how it works, my main question was why I’d need to know anything? Other than I know what TSAT and CTOT are in terms of CFMU and how it appeared on ACDM portals. Presume the airports/ATC itself would let me know if there was an issue.
Airborne_Again wrote:
ACDM means “Airport Collaborative Decision Making”. AFAIU it is a set of procedures aiming at making the departure handling of a flight more efficient and predictable by involving all parties (flight operator, ground handler, ATC etc.) in the planning. Indirectly it will affect flow control by making it more likely that the aircraft will depart on its slot.
Take this as an example…
pilotrobbie wrote:
I used to have access with the Heathrow one when I was working on the ground with BA. But whilst I am familiar with the term ACDM and how it works, my main question was why I’d need to know anything? Other than I know what TSAT and CTOT are in terms of CFMU and how it appeared on ACDM portals.
You basically need to check the IAP to see what it means for the airport you will be flying into, how you ask for slots, handling etc what address to contact. Which is why the phone option is rarely the right one to get everything coordinated. Airports like Zurich etc all use and implement the same system. As painful as it sounds, they basically take the ‘’measure twice, cut once’’ approach which means everything works and is coordinated, including marshaller etc to get you onto stand. It also (a lot of the time) means the handler has direct access to slot delivery etc…
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Take this as an example…
I am going to install my CFMU token on my laptop then haha! Because then I can at least check where my flight plan sits in the system.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
You basically need to check the IAP to see what it means for the airport you will be flying into, how you ask for slots, handling etc what address to contact. Which is why the phone option is rarely the right one to get everything coordinated. Airports like Zurich etc all use and implement the same system. As painful as it sounds, they basically take the ‘’measure twice, cut once’’ approach which means everything works and is coordinated, including marshaller etc to get you onto stand. It also (a lot of the time) means the handler has direct access to slot delivery etc…
It seems like JetAviation are aware that some people go the free way for SLOTs. Based on the wording in there email, It seems like “If you want, but that will be 50EUR”.
Which makes sense on why everyone is saying EDDL is 149EUR to visit. Unless you ring up the SLOT Coordination Centre? That 50EUR could be spent on me having a better meal….
boscomantico wrote:
Exactly. But only if you do it on the day of the flight (not sooner). But don’t worry, just call them first thing in the morning and kindly just ask the person to put an arrival slot
So I’ve got my quote from EDDL GAT (JetAviation) and it’s reasonable. They’ve put 12-12 (But It’ll be less than that) if I go onto HAM. Frankfurt Slot Coordination only on the day?
