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Flying into French Language Only (FR-only) airfields (and French ATC ELP)

Thank you Jojo, but as a microlight operator I am naturally attracted to the smaller fields – the bigger places are certainly more expensive, and some will even (understandably) refuse my humble craft.

Peter has rightly pointed out the large distance between “practical” and “legal”, yet as pilots we have all been trained to be on the sure side. I feel confident that I can do acceptable, or even good, quality R/T on any French field, and in 99% of cases there will not be any trouble. However I have now realised the last percent, where the famous blue van turns up at the field and the gentlemen therein ask for my French LP statement – AFAIK if once they have found something, they’ll not leave it lightly, and it might at least cost me a solid fine. France has always been described as microlighter’s paradise, but has lost some attraction for me!

Now if I did want to acquire said French LP statement, what would be the way to proceed? Could I take the test anywhere in Belgium? Idea of cost?

Come to think of it, the French authorities will certainly not require such a statement for their own citizens, the excuse being that, as national citizens of a Francophone country, they are exempt. Surely I could play on the (in France) widespread misunderstanding that Belgium is just another Francophone country, so that the exemption applies for me too? A Swiss pilot could try the same, though perhaps less if her/his name should be Schützenbacher or so…

But frankly, I feel little inclined. If it is the French today, the Germans will follow tomorrow, next the Italians and the Spanish (nice source of revenue for both!) and soon I’ll need an extra pilot’s bag just to carry my various language proficiency statements.

Last Edited by at 15 Mar 13:37
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

A tip for those going to France: my impression is that the chance of being met by the Police de l’Air or some DGAC official is close to zero at the very small GA / club aerodromes. What seems to be much more risky (and that’s where the occasional problem has arisen) is if one goes to those fields with ATC but at a time when ATS is not available (for example in the famous lunch break). One case I have heard of was at Lyon Bron (logic, there’s a DGAC office there).

Avoid places like Lyon, Colmar, etc. in the lunch break and all should be good.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 15 Mar 13:47
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Yes, Philipp, I also feel the risk “close to zero” at the smallish fields that I prefer. A chap I know quite well even once flew (in all his ignorant innocence) into LFQO (Marcq en Baroeul) without consulting or informing anybody, it seems the Armée de l’Air doesn’t like that at all yet he never came to harm or grief. But do we consider “close to zero” safe enough? I am unsure.

Last Edited by at 15 Mar 13:52
EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

France has generated more than its fair share of aviation stories, some verifiable, most not.

€10000 fine and/or aircraft confiscation for busting the nuclear power station zones. It may be true but, despite asking many times, I have never found anybody who knew anybody who actually got this, or even anybody who can find the reference for the law.

Loads of “attacks” on N-reg planes, involving heavy handed document searches and harrassment delaying the flight by several hours. I have read witness reports (on pilot forums – could have been made up on the spot) but have never communicated directly with anybody who this happened to.

Claims that these attacks can be stopped by pre-registering one’s documents with a Police/Customs office in Paris. Following one specific claim on a big UK chat site, I spent some time on this, and I concluded the poster (who didn’t like me asking him for the source) just made it up to sound important.

Customs attacks over VAT, on non-F and non-EU (usually this means N-reg) aircraft not having the Certificate of Free Circulation. One big story was a TBM which got busted at Tarbes at the Socata factory and was forced to pay the VAT on the TBM, only to get it back when he left the country a few days later. Socata seem to know something about this but smile and say nothing. Some 3rd hand reports from people I know seem to confirm it. Unfortunately, if an EU passport holder flies from say the USA into Europe in his N-reg TBM, and didn’t take the exact temporary permit precautions, this can happen to him anywhere in the EU. Of course the full story never comes out…

Claims that there are officials who check N-reg pilots arriving on IFR flight plans, with a briefing pack with a picture of the FAA plastic card with the words “instrument pilot” specially marked. Posted on a big UK chat site but was unverifiable.

What is one to make of this?

I suspect there is truth in most of these stories, but with a very low probability of somebody getting you. I think the French authorities sit around most of the time getting pissed, and every so often they decide to jump en-masse into their €3000/hr twin turbine helicopter and mount an attack on some place. They are probably not going to hit some forgotten place in the back of beyond (e.g. St Yan on a weekend, or Caen at any time) because it would be a waste of time. But maybe some big fly-in? Le Touquet would be a good place to harrass the foreigners and spoil their lunch but I have been there countless times and have never seen anybody of relevance.

Also I think most of these stories are 5-10 years old and there are very few recent ones coming out.

I busted a nuclear TRA in 2003 and 5 months later the DGAC went after me via the CAA. The way they did that was quite naughty, not least because I was on a radar service at the time and they said nothing, merely asking – bizzarely – for the name and address of the pilot. Utterly weird – almost the sort of thing you would do to trap somebody. Nothing came of it… It wasn’t on the charts and it wasn’t in the notams so the UK CAA told them to get stuffed. But this is why I would not mess with their military areas. Like most “southern” countries, France is laid back until you piss off the wrong official and then the sky falls in. A lot of people like that way of life and I can completely understand that

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

the only claims I heard were from people I believe and they were quite clear: Whoever flies in France to a FR only airfield or airport during its FR only periode without an LP 4 risks to be finde and grounded. The pilot, not the plane. What I found particularly noteworthy was one claim of a guy who landed during a lunch break of the local ATC, was grounded and not even let to depart after he paid the fine on the spot and during operating hours of the english speaking ATC. They wanted to get the message across so they sent him home by ground transport and had the organisation which owned the plane fly in a suitable pilot (with FR LP 4) to bring the plane home.

What needs to happen is that incidents like that need to see a court action to stop this. While the fine and refusal to let the pilot re-depart during the FR only period may be legally sound, I wonder why they would make an example of refusing him to depart while legal.

My consequence is clear: If I fly to France again I will fly to airports which offer english and also durng the times they do. Not only because the French throw a wobbly if not, but because now nobody can claim he did not know. If that is what the French want, then that is what they get. However, the other consequence is, I will take my sour earned flying money elsewhere whenever I can.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

I will take my sour earned flying money elsewhere whenever I can.

Exactly my feeling too.

EBZH Kiewit, Belgium

Frankly I think everyone is making too much a fuss of this, but then again it is a pilot forum and that’s what drives them! Let’s find a tiny oddity in the regulations and make a mountain out of a molehill.

FR seulement is only when there is no ATC! When there is AFIS/ATC at a French airfield, English can be or is spoken, period. The ones on 123.50 are advisory only and you can land there with no radio at all!

OK I may be an ardent Francophile, and although I sometimes disagree with some muscular Customs tactics and waste of taxpayer money, I find it odd that the French get criticised for insisting on French only when there is no ATC, when all they are doing is offer a solution when you want to operate out of hours uncontrolled. What solution do you prefer? The Italian or German one, where you can’t land AT ALL when there is no ATC? The fact that it is a customs airfield or not makes no difference. Actually Cherbourg is customs and are sometime French only when the tower is inactive for example. Most French only airfield on the air air 123.50 frequency are small uncontrolled field and no one cares if your French is rusty, as long as you can buy a round at the aeroclub bar.

I’ve been flying to and from France for over 20 years on foreign registered aircraft (G, N, OY, F or whatever) with a UK PPL. I have never had an issue, the only thing was sometimes getting an ATC message warning me it is French only when the tower was closed and French only when I filed an FPL from the UK. I still flew and never once got challenged. I have had ramp checks at airfields in France and that point was never brought up. I actually never had any issues whatsoever during these checks, customs or not. I have been closely involved with our local aeroclub in France for a decade, which welcomes lots of British pilots and that has never been an issue either. Two G-regs crashed over the years and that was never brought up either, by the authorities or the insurance company. OK I am fluent in French so maybe it is easier for me, but I was also based for 2 years at a small Spanish field where only Spanish was spoken and flown to countless fields that were Spanish only, and my Spanish is extremely basic but still managed to operate safely and never got challenged.

So if you want to fly to an uncontrolled French field, just look up the correct phrases in aeronautical French, and just fly and enjoy your flying, rather than find some arcane paperwork reasons not to. France is probably the most liberal country for GA in Europe so I think the Frogs are getting a bit bashed on this thread. And no, I am not a Frog!

Last Edited by podair at 15 Mar 20:41
ORTAC

€10000 fine and/or aircraft confiscation for busting the nuclear power station zones. It may be true

My experience was as a passenger. In the month that exclusion zones around the nuclear power stations were increased to 5km we penetrated the new zone but were outside the old zone. Cause was a poor NOTAM check so no excuse. The French police persued us through the Dutch aviation police. They wanted to prosecute not only the pilot but the pax. Twp police interviews and a lot of humble pie was eaten and it al went away – but we wre threatened with a €40,000 fine and 2 years in a French prison.

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands

They wanted to prosecute not only the pilot but the pax. Twp police interviews and a lot of humble pie was eaten and it al went away – but we wre threatened with a €40,000 fine and 2 years in a French prison.

Were the police interviews in Holland or in France?

Is extradition possible over this kind of thing? AIUI, punishment is possible only to the extent that the alleged crime is punishable under the law of the country where the trial takes place. For example there may be a country in Africa where the punishment for busting a TRA is having your family killed. If they then use the ICAO provision (for mutual persecution) to get the UK CAA to implement that, it won’t happen because that penalty would be excessive in the UK (and anyway the death penalty has been abolished here ).

Prosecuting the passengers is totally comical. Is that possible, even under French law?

Whose law was the €40k fine and the 2 year jail under?

Last Edited by Peter at 15 Mar 20:57
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Interviews were in Holland. The threatened fine and incarcaration was in the original request from the French

EHLE / Lelystad, Netherlands, Netherlands
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