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Experimental / homebuilt in Spain

@aart, that would be acceptable. I don’t want to take shortcuts and not maintain it. I just want to do the majority of maintenance myself which on a D-registration I can only do if I build the plane myself but not if I just buy one.

I live in Germany, will stay here and primarily fly here as well. But occassional trips to Northern or southern Europe would be great. I understand I need a permit for those flights. My primary concern is a constant permit for Germany.

@Peter, I have no worries here. I can check the serial and compare it with the documents from the factory. I trust the seller. He imported it. My concern is that he didn’t fly from 2013 to 09/2022. It was made airworthy then again. The certificate is renewed by 2 years but given the long time it was not operated I’d be more happy if all maintenance was better documented. Maybe it just got airworthy by signature. I flew it though and it flies well.

Last Edited by maik_rolle at 19 Nov 18:17
Germany

If I was operating a Rotax powered aircraft I would make sure I have a full paper trail for the engine and all significant parts like avionics.

This is because stolen Rotax engines are quite a big business, and as far as anyone can tell they end up mainly in S. Europe – because N European countries tend to do physical inspections. For example you probably cannot install a stolen Rotax in a G-reg.

Remember also that flying a non-cert around Europe needs permits from some countries. At this point certain posters always pop up and say this is rubbish, but it is true – even if many ignore it, because there is basically no enforcement. Again, “Threads possibly related to this one” below have the info. A lot of the info is hard to find though because it is buried in national laws.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Comparing to Germany with all it’s regulations it’s sounds too good to be true.

Well, it is true. I know some experimental owners (ULM) who are very happy now. However, don’t forget that the Spanish CAA still has the right to do an inspection. This happened to a friend of mine. The inspector was not really technical so he could not judge the status of the aircraft, and just focussed on procedures, like verifying whether the Rotax had been serviced according to its AMM. So you may want to document your work properly, which of course is a good idea anyway for various reasons.

EDIT: Forgot that you want to bring it over to Germany, permanently. I guess the risk of an inspection by the Spanish CAA is then virtually zero, although theoretically they could ask the LBA to do it on their behalf?

Last Edited by aart at 19 Nov 14:54
Private field, Mallorca, Spain

@aart, before the manufacturer got a type certificate, all Sportcruisers were either sold as kits or factory build but always registered as experimentals. That’s why you almost can’t find a D-registered sport cruiser from those years as D registered experimentals need to be build in Germany.

@Airborne_Again, it’s not EASA certified. Only the new ones are. I believe they even had to make some changes to the control balance to get the EASA certificate.

@Maoraigh, very good information. I will check with German authorites

Thanks to all for the great responses, got really good information here.

What I learned and like about Spain is that the owner (not necessarily the builder) can do all maintenance. There is no authority checking that the work has actually been done. You basically just sign yourself for it’s airworthieness and get the airworthieness certificate renewed. This is great and the true spirit of experimentals. Comparing to Germany with all it’s regulations it’s sounds too good to be true. I don’t want to take any shortcuts and this is were my doubts are coming from. While I prefer to be allowed to do maintenance myself there is of course the risk that previous maintenance was not done well as there is only the signature of the former owner, no other hard proof.

Germany

@maik_rolle posts moved to existing identical thread. Your username was also edited to replace the dot with an underscore, because the dot breaks various forum functions. The signup code should not allow it but it does

So not sure if I fully get the full dissassembly – reassembly comment.

It was a requirement in some countries for acceptance on their registry. For example France had it after 1998, for various types, until very recently. It may still exist in some places, especially for structures which are difficult to inspect. In practice almost nobody actually does the disassembly, for obvious reasons

I want to keep it that way but have no ideas how relaxed spain adminstration is in terms of maintenance requirements.

What tends to happen with a non-cert type which lives in another country is that one has to maintain a mailbox for correspondence and periodic declarations with the CAA of the country of registry. This was widely done with PH-reg which are popular for basing elsewhere other than NL. You are likely to need this for the Spanish CAA, after you move physically to Germany. What I don’t know is whether you need to find a Spanish person to look at the plane in Germany, etc… non-cert G-regs based outside the UK have this issue, and use various ways to get around it.

In Germany, the requirements are likely to be no worse than keeping an N-reg non-cert there. Many previous threads on that e.g. here and here but there are issues – example with insurance.

In Europe there is a general trend to restrict long term basing of foreign reg non-cert aircraft. The UK and France recently banned it after 28 days. Germany remains one place where you can still do it – along with the former communist bloc where it works because nobody really cares As usual, the “Threads possibly related to this one” below are good reading.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

I flew a Bolkow Junior from near Grimsby in England to Inverness. using an Icon handheld with headset adapter, after buying it. We then fitted an 8.33 and ModeS.
Although Bolkow. Juniors are EASA, this one was on an EASA Permit to Fly. ( Since Brexit it is on a CAA Letter permitting it to fly on a now-invalid Permit until it expires on 10/12/21.)
Check the German regulations regarding keeping an aircraft which has non-EASA documents from another EASA state and flying it in German airspace.
However itss document might be an EASA Permit.
Your Civil Aviation Authority will decide whether you buy or not.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

ErlendV wrote:

I guess you can use a PLB in substitute for an ELT. (It’s legal in Norway and Sweden.)

If the aircraft is experimental, then it is an Annex I aircraft and the state of registry decides for itself if the aircraft needs an ELT (or PLB or something else).

If it is (EASA) certified, then by NCO.IDE.A.170 a PLB is sufficient.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 18 Nov 20:47
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

I’m confused. The Sportcruiser is a EASA-certified (CS/LSA) aircraft. There are several of them flying under EC-reg in Spain at flight schools. So why is your experimental if it’s factory-built?

Private field, Mallorca, Spain

@ErlendV, interesting. My question is more about legality. Can I fly without an ELT in Europe if it’s not required in Spain (which seems to be the case as it is airworthy)?

The current radio is an ICOM A210 and will be replaced with an ICOM A220T. My desired home airport needs 8.33khz

By the way, it’s a factory build SportCruiser. They can only be bought as certified planes today.

Germany

Not minding changing the radio. that will be done. I was just wondering why it’s not done yet. Also don’t want to register it in Germany. I like to keep it on the spain registration. So not sure if I fully get the full dissassembly – reassembly comment.

It is airworthy in Spain. I want to keep it that way but have no ideas how relaxed spain adminstration is in terms of maintenance requirements.

As far as I know, in germany a maintenance schedule for an experimental need to be documented and agreed upon before the registration is approved.

Germany
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