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Europe Trip in July - Spain, France, Lux.

I’m planning a VFR europe trip with a week off work. The plan is to go from the south coast UK to Spain and back stopping in a few interesting places. I’m posting here to see if anyone has any pearls of wisdom before I plan in any more detail.

The aircraft is a Tecnam Sierra RG, Rotax 912S, carrying 100 litres, burning 20/hour, Limited to 120kts IAS in rough air. All my time estimates below are based on 120kts worst case. On the way back from La Rochelle a few weeks ago I cruised at 133kts TAS at 8500ft, taking 2:05.

The plan is first week in July, or if weather fails that, last week in July, or some time in August. It’s myself and my wife going, so i’m trying to moderate flying against actually seeing places so she doesn’t get grumpy :) I’m starting with a massive leg on the first day, and then little legs on each subsequent day.

  • Can anyone explain Spanish landing fees? I’ve reviewed the AENA pricing and i’m a bit baffled by it.

DAY 1
Total Journey Time 4:15
DEANLAND - CAEN
105nm 50 Minutes. Set off 8:00z. Arrive 8:50z.
Customs prior notice required at Caen
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Uplift Fuel - not strictly necessary but a sensible safety measure
CAEN - PAMPLONA
388nm 3:25. Set off 9:20z. Arrive 12:45z.
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Permission must be sought on every spanish landing

DAY 2
PAMPLONA - SABADELL
135nm 1:30. Set off 17:00z. Arrive 18:30z.
Flight plans must be submitted for ALL VFR flights inside spain
Sunset is 21:25local (19:25z)

DAY 3
SABADELL - MARSEILLE
206nm 1:45. Set off 17:00z. Arrive 18:45z.
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Sunset is 21:25local (19:25z)

DAY 4
MARSEILLE - ANNECY
164nm 1:11. Set off 17:00z. Arrive 18:11z
No FPL Required.
Sunset is 21:35local (19:35z)

DAY 5
ANNECY - LUXEMBOURG
239nm 1:50. Set off 17:00z. Arrive 18:50z
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Dogleg west to avoid highest terrain
Sunset is 21:45local (19:45z)

DAY 6
LUXEMBOURG - DEANLAND
244nm 2:00. Set off 17:00z. Arrive 19:00z
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Sunset is 21:15local (20:15z)
GAR Required

EGKL, United Kingdom

Sounds like a nice trip!

A few things I would suggest double checking:

Last time I asked Pamplona they didn't have avgas, Admittedly nobody could speak English so I had to spell it Alpha Victor Golf Alpha Sierra...

Not all Spanish airports are PPR; in fact I think most aren't.

Not all flights within Spain need a flight plan, but ones passing through CAS do. Probably best to stick one in just to be sure though, in case you ask for a shortcut through CAS.

Otherwise you seem to have it well sussed. What charts are you using?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Just one question : why bother with Marseille? You want to visit the city? For your landing point do you really mean Marseille Provence LFML? I'm not sure the aiport is very GA friendly, though I've never been there. An alternate could be Aix les Mille in Aix en Provence. From there you have plenty of bus and train shuttle going to Marseille.

Annecy is really a great place, the airport has all facilities, a short ride from the city center and the lake shore. The approach and landing is more spectacular at Chambery, though, with the landing between mountains and over the lake until the last meters. (or the taking off, depending on the wind). You might want to try it, too.

SE France

You won't get an idea about the real airport fees (all-in) just by reading some official pricelists. The only way to do this is to look for real-world pilot reports. In many places (including Spain), there will be handling in top of landing fees, plus a few other things. The only thing I can say is that the pricing across the spanish major airports is very different. Anything from 12 Euros (only a very few of these remaining), all the way to 300/400 Euros.

Avoid Biarritz in high summer. Even though is more expensive in Spain, you might want to consider San Sebastian for fuel. A beautiful airport (and a beautiful city, too).

Marseille has now become very expensive due to mandatory handling. I'll second Thierry's choice for Aix les Milles.

Luxembourg sure isn't cheap, either.

On another note: you are still planning too many flying hours for one week! Especially in the summer (heat, turbulence) and if going VFR (much more tiring). And the Sierra sure isn't the most comfotable.

The weather will play you tricks anyway.

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the quick reply! I'm not entirely sure I feel 'well sussed', i'm on a steep learning curve!

Right now i'm using SkyDemon for this planning. I have 2010 Jepp ones in paper form, I inherited them from the prior aircraft owner, haven't even opened them.

Pamplona not having AVGAS would be a problem - if that's the case I would need to stop somewhere locally to get some - perhaps Biarritz on the way there.... but that's going to make the day even longer. Alternatively could make Zaragoza on the next day - do they have fuel? It's only a half hour trip, but i'll be running on fumes, especially if there's any headwind.

If spain is likely to be a bit problematic on Fuel, I might just replan completely and stop in Biarritz for a night, fully fuel, then i have enough to do all spanish legs and can next refuel in Marseille. In a perfect world I'd find some nice UL fuel so I don't have to put dirty lead into my engine :)

-C

EGKL, United Kingdom

I would advise against Biarritz, too. FWIW, French pilots report it is expensive, not particularly friendly, very busy in the summer and very good chance of a ramp check...

Bordeaux

Lots to think about in the last posts…. I'm rapidly replanning. Thanks for the feedback.

I picked Marseille just because it's en-route to Annecy, and sounded nice. I've now changed this to Aix-Les Milles, thanks for that advice.

The reason for Annecy is that a friend has a place nearby, and I fancied visiting. If he's there at the time he'll pick us up, if not, we'll just stay in Annecy. However, I fancy Chambery, it's on my bucket list of airports, so i'll change to there instead.

As for whether this is too many hours or not … there's only one way to find out. I feel that under 2 hours per day is OK, will be a tiring week, but worth it. Obviously weather will keep the plans fluid, and if necessary I can just take the subsequent week off work. If we like somewhere, maybe we'll stay an extra day. All that said - i'm deleting ELLX from the plan and heading more directly back from Chambery to UK, stopping somewhere like CHALONS to give a detour around Paris.

I've chopped it down to 5 conceptual days, with a big long leg at the end. My goal is to make the trip last 6 or 7 days, and can use weather and/or a place we like to use the extra time.

So…. here's the replan….

DAY 1
Total Journey Time 4:15
DEANLAND EGKL - CAEN LFRK
105nm 50 Minutes.  Set off 9:00 8:00z.  Arrive 10:50 8:50z.
Customs prior notice required at Caen
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Uplift Fuel - not strictly necessary but a sensible safety measure
CAEN LFRK - PAMPLONA LEPP
388nm 3:25.  Set off 11:20 9:20z.  Arrive 14:45 12:45z.
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Permission must be sought on every spanish landing
Check if Fuel is available
Have late afternoon, the night, and most of next day in Pamplona

DAY 2
PAMPLONA LEPP - SABADELL LELL
135nm 1:30.  Set off 16:00 14:00z.  Arrive 17:30 15:30z.
Flight plans must be submitted for ALL VFR flights inside spain CAS
Sunset is 21:25local (19:25z).  Sabadell open until Sunset.
Have late evening, night, and most of next day in Barcelona.

DAY 3
SABADELL LELL - AIX-LES MILLES LFMA
206nm 1:45.  Set off 15:30 13:30z.  Arrive 17:15 15:15z.
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Sunset is 21:25local (19:25z).  Airport closes 18:00 (16:00z)
Have late evening, night, and most of next day in Marseille.

DAY 4
AIX-LES MILLES LFMA - CHAMBERY LFLB
164nm 1:00.  Set off 17:00 15:00z.  Arrive 18:00 16:00z
No FPL Required.
Sunset is 21:35local (19:35z).  Operation hours notified by NOTAM.
Have late evening and night in Chambery.

DAY 5
CHAMBERY LFLB - CHALONS LFOK
239nm 1:35.  Set off 10:00 8:00z.  Arrive 11:35 09:35z
Sunset is 21:45local (19:45z)
CHALONS LFOK - DEANLAND EGKL
244nm 1:35.  Set off 12:00 10:00z.  Arrive 12:35 11:35z
FPL required due to international boundary crossing
Sunset is 21:15local (20:15z)
GAR Required

EGKL, United Kingdom

As a very general point, best to fly early mornings because (a) you tend to get the best weather and (b) you have loads of time to hang out at the next place.

You aren't far from me (Shoreham) but if I flew into Deanland I would never get out again

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

So I would suggest you allow for 2 days where you don't fly. Even short flights (particularly VFR) are mentally tiring. Flying every day is too much for a holiday IMHO.

EGTK Oxford

A few more changes to try and space it out and make it a bit more enjoyable:

Day 1 - forget Caen, we'll go to La Rochelle for lunch. 3 hours on the ground there. Day 3 - We'll plan to stay in barcelona, no flying. Day 4 - Changed to fly earlier in the morning

I then have a spare day of not flying to stick in wherever feels right at the time, keeping that one loose.

I'm looking for somewhere interesting to have lunch on the return leg - somewhere in the Paris area - the route between Chambery and Deanland intersects the middle of Paris, so i'd like to go around it to the NE or SW and stop somewhere that's not far by taxi. I was looking at Chalons but it's in the middle of nowhere.

Peter... last night I was flying the Kitfox from Deanland and wishing it's runway was a bit shorter, its just too much of a luxury at 450m when i'm only using 150! Sierra needs a bit more obviously :)

EGKL, United Kingdom
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