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Cessna Citation II OE-FGR down in the Baltic sea.

Mooney_Driver wrote:

There was a lot of discussion on what someone like him could do in a situation where both cockpit are unresponsive and he has to go down.

Considering that he had a CPL he could likely do a lot.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

All aircraft that fly higher than FL200 have TCAS or TAS, hitting traffic or losing separation is very unlikely as I think transponder carriage is mandatory, ATC will clear the way for any aircraft on 7700 or flying without clearance, it’s their job not PIC job !

There is plenty of volume above FL100 on Airways, it’s not some radar TMA with tight vectoring departure & holding stacks

A small detail: any aircraft that is subject to depressurization will descend with or without ATC clearance/separation, the fact that ATC did not clear the aircraft for descent will not change anything to the outcome: this aircraft went into water busting every level underneath (with unconscious PIC and without ATC clerance) after running out of juice, bizarrely, it did not hit any traffic bellow or trigger loss of separation

How do people do when they lose voice or comm after depressurization, they ask for clearance? or set 7600 and fly according to clearance?

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 Dec 11:42
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

All aircraft that fly higher than FL200 have TCAS or TAS

Definitely not the case. Lots of turbo piston planes can do FL250 and until recent years none had any traffic detection systems.

Big Sky is your friend

Very much so.

The pilot is getting pretty well slagged off on mainland domestic GA sites but I do think that there was a shortage of currency and/or recurrent training (possibly of any kind).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Definitely not the case. Lots of turbo piston planes can do FL250 and until recent years none had any traffic detection

Some of the high end GA is running it cheap I get that, puzzled if one can’t fit 10k-20k STC TAS device in 1m aircraft?

Anyway everybody above some weight has ADSB and hopefully can see things in iPad? they can’t just sit and relax on comfy chairs while getting served separation on silver plater by ATC? what if they lose radios?

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 Dec 11:55
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

There is almost nobody in “GA” airspace, below say FL200.

The Citation is a different thing; you are likely to be in “airliner” space when enroute. Hence the advice to turn off the route (the “airway”) when doing an emergency descent.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Yes this is less relevant to GA operations

Hence the advice to turn off the route (the “airway”) when doing an emergency descent.

My understanding you still need ATC clearance to do that? or at least it’s the advice given in the training?

I am still puzzled by clearance & separation concerns, assuming it’s VMC at FL360 why a conscious PIC of CJ can’t go off-airway and avoid traffic visually during his emergency descent?

Last Edited by Ibra at 01 Dec 12:33
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

No time to get a clearance, you just descend.

ESSZ, Sweden

Ibra wrote:

My understanding you still need ATC clearance to do that? or at least it’s the advice given in the training?

In an emergency you do whatever is necessary. No clearance is needed for anything. You tell ATC what you’re doing when you get the chance.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Ibra wrote:

I wonder if auto-pilots in the high altitude jets have one single button that flies aircraft down to MSA of current leg in case of pilot blackout?

Not a 500/550 Citation. The CJ4 does have such a function, but not the CJ1,CJ2, CJ2+, or CJ3

Darley Moor, Gamston (UK)

In an emergency you do whatever is necessary. No clearance is needed for anything. You tell ATC what you’re doing when you get the chance.

Bingo

always learning
LO__, Austria
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