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Cessna Citation II OE-FGR down in the Baltic sea.

Descending to MSA in auto pilot is not advised at the beginning of the operation, because it cannot do it “rightnow”, and if you put a too strong descent profile, it will overshoot. Anyway of mask is working, you don’t need it.

LFMD, France

greg_mp wrote:

Anyway of mask is working, you don’t need it.

But you may have dead pax in the back….

Anyway, some of the airline pilots here correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t SOP in a case like that this sequence:
- mask on
- turn 90 deg off airway
- establish emergency descent

172driver wrote:

Anyway, some of the airline pilots here correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t SOP in a case like that this sequence:
- mask on
- turn 90 deg off airway
- establish emergency descent

Yes, that is exactly what it should be. Mask on, turn off and descend, 7700 and once established on descent tell ATC what is going on.

Not only for airline pilots but for anyone flying a pressurized airplane.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

But you may have dead pax in the back

Pax max release are automatic when cabin altitude goes over 14500ft – i suppose as it is the case on CJx.

LFMD, France

Most modern aircraft have an emergency decent mode if the cabin altitude reach 14.000ft or 15.000ft
However a citation II…

LFPT Pontoise, LFPB

I had a sudden and complete depressurisation at FL200 in a Mirage, with my instructor in RHS. It was over Cambridge Uk enroute to Poland.

I did what I thought I had been trained to do in which was a) turn off airways 30 degrees, b) power off, gear down, and descend max rate (about 2,500 fpm, 3) call ATC and declare emergency.

I was told by my instructor after that I was supposed to ask ATC for the descent before heading down, on the basis that there might well be conflicting traffic below.

I dont really care, if it happens again I am likely to do the same, on the basis that getting an O2 mask on is going to take me precious seconds. Albeit, on the Mirage I had a chemcial O2 generator which is hidden under the seat and bastard to find in a panic.

Upper Harford private strip UK, near EGBJ, United Kingdom

Buckerfan wrote:

I was told by my instructor after that I was supposed to ask ATC for the descent before heading down, on the basis that there might well be conflicting traffic below.

That sounds like a stupid advice. The risk of yourself being incapacitated and thus LOC and the third party damage well outweighs the risk of a midair due to a controlled emergency descent after loss of pressurisation.

Big Sky is your friend, whereas low Blood paO2 is your enemy in this case.

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

I was told by my instructor after that I was supposed to ask ATC for the descent before heading down, on the basis that there might well be conflicting traffic below.

I was without any exception taught to coordinate contingencies with ATC when the situation allows it, e.g. a slowly rising cabin altitude or an engine failure (requiring a lower cruise level, while still maintaining level as speed slowly runs back).

For cabin altitude (a warning commonly triggered for a cabin too high) the first thing, without delay, is to don the oxygen mask. Once that’s done, initiate the descent with 45 up to 90 turn, mayday call, lights, belts, 7700. In descent, re-evaluate for MSA, further clearance with ATC.

I dont really care, if it happens again I am likely to do the same, on the basis that getting an O2 mask on is going to take me precious seconds.

It’s the other way round I think. Initiating the descent is what takes precious seconds before donning the mask.

always learning
LO__, Austria

Most modern aircraft have an emergency decent mode if the cabin altitude reach 14.000ft or 15.000ft

Good to know !

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Buckerfan wrote:

I was told by my instructor after that I was supposed to ask ATC for the descent before heading down, on the basis that there might well be conflicting traffic below.

Frankly, NO. That reluctance to immediately start down (with 30° off track) is what might have killed those people. (even though not putting the mask on was the primary reason).

After the Helios crash (on the 737) it transpired there was a steward on board who later managed to get into the cockpit, but unfortunately by the time he did, the airplane was out of fuel. There was a lot of discussion on what someone like him could do in a situation where both cockpit are unresponsive and he has to go down. Consent was to set 12000 or so ft and press lvl change. The aircraft would then descend and level off at 12000 ft. On an Airbus you’d set the altitude and pull the knob. Same result. If they know how, set 7700 on the transponder, so ATC clears whoever is there out of the way.

Next step would be to get them on oxygen if they are not. This may well get them responsive rather quick again if the decompression was not too long ago, long before you reach 12k or so. If something is wrong with the oxygen, they would most probably become responsive again eventually once the plane descends, or apply portable oxygen.

Obviously there would be the risk of traffic conflicts, which however in the Helios case was not a factor as by the time the guy got into the cockpit, ATC was well aware of that that plane was unresponsive and it was accompanied by fighters.

The one bit I do not understand in the 551 accident is that if they had automatic masks in the cabin, why the pilot in the cabin (if I get it right the daughter of the owner) did nothing after she realized they had decompression but they did not descend. Or possibly she did but failed to reach the cockpit. As a Lear Jet rated (albeit expired) person she would have known the implications.

Last Edited by Mooney_Driver at 01 Dec 10:48
LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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