We were crossing the Alps departing around 7:40 UTC at LDRI at the same day heading back to EDDS.Weather was as mentioned before not the best. Climbing in IMC short after departure we got some light icing between FL 80 to about 100. Then we could switch of the TKS because at FL 120 we could fly between the layers. Before descending after the Alps we had to switch it on again, until FL 70. With the final decent to altitude 6000 we got free of any ice which had build up on some edges. As said before, not a good idea to cross the Alps in the eastern part VFR.
Then I simply don’t get how they end up over there? there are far worse places to be when it comes to dodging weather on VFR FPL with zero ATS cooperation: Alpha airspace in UK with convective weather or icing, Switzerland in 12kft-20kft band…
Even in France where ATS are traditionally very relaxed or chilled, it can gets nasty to end up IMC on VFR FPL near Paris TMA in 3kft-FL70 band or bimbling in SIV/ATC sectors intersections near FL120 cutoffs, like this guy
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/181347
He was an IR rated ATPL in IFR DA42 with auto-pilot, likely 10kh of flying hours, he got a bit of struggle with airspace, clouds and terrain: ATC clearance to enter/avoid airspace/weather never materialized. On VFR FPL, there is no shortage of help from ATS to leave controlled airspace and fly into terrain unless PIC pushes back or mayday (ATC will rarely propose IFR or deviations or climbs to PIC on VFR FPL, they have no clue of capabilities & handovers, from their perspective a GA pilot VFR in IMC is like catching a falling knife)
do Croatian ATC or Airspace have any climb altitude restriction for VFR? can one ask for FL140 on VFR FPL?
No. You can ask anything and you’ll get it, other traffic permitting. Which usually means you’ll get it immediately or with few minutes of delay.
I flew on the same dates similar route though a bit more to the east on the 26th there was a solid cloud deck over the area of Maria Zell till FL100. I stayed in the Danube valley along Linz for a while before turning direction STEIN assuring first a was clear at FL120 to go over it, I was on oxygen. Weather past the Alps was nice
On the 29th however the weather in the southern part of Hungary and for sure Croatia was not good. I woke up at 4 AM to assess the weather. There was a wide spread icing forecast light to moderate from FL080 till FL180. The window of opportunity was around 6AM after 11AM things would get worse ENR rain lowering ceilings etc…. including icing levels over the Alps…I flew at 6000 Ft most of the way back I took the Wiener Neustadt route to avoid climbing going over Maria Zell min FL100 required. It was possible to stay clear of icing at 7AM arounf FL080 not anymore around 11AM IMHO, looking how the clouds were building over the mountains while I passed there. At the time of take off the weather was not good in the south it cleared up significantly direction Vienna……I remained at 6000 and during penetration of some some showers around DKB I for sure had my TKS on, till past Frankfurt I climbed till FL100 as there was a solid cloud deck over the Ardennes. My descent was rapid till Liege but still my windshield picked up ice very quickly till I pushed the windshield pump … below 5000Ft temps were OK again….just saying it wasn’t an easy day for travelling with GA and for sure not VFR with the icing forecast TILL FL180/mountains . I only can promote to correlate data from DWD (flugwetter) ADWICE, Windy and ADL to get the picture before you depart…..
You can look up the sat24 IR and the meteox.com archive for the date/time.
but normally he ought to have been at least FL100 at this point.
Yes given he was heading toward high terrain, he should have been above cloud tops and terrain peaks earlier? do Croatian ATC or Airspace have any climb altitude restriction for VFR? can one ask for FL140 on VFR FPL?
The climb rate in turbulent airmass in a hot day with 4pob would be awful even for C182, one has to climb at some fixed point in space irrespective of conditions inside clouds, aircraft was heading toward mountains and high terrain north !
If this was a VFR flight, then the outcome was not unexpected.
For an IFR flight, my strategy for doing the (typical) LDLO/LDSB to EGKA leg is to climb above the IMC before reaching the Alps. So I tend to fly the route via SRN which gives me this opportunity, flying above Italy’s flat lands until high enough to see the IMC tops above the Alps, all the way across:
Once, 2014, I departed on a more northerly heading (roughly towards Munich) and was doing the climb in IMC, and got this lesson which one doesn’t forget in a hurry.
Peter wrote:
I do have a sub but it shows nothing
It comes up as ‘scheduled’ with a 9:13 departure time. Probably no further data.
I do have a sub but it shows nothing.
