„He took of from runway 05. The predominantly used runway there is 23. After 23 if you want to join the circuit to fly out via E or N towards Memmingen, you’d turn right….“
No, runway in use at LOIH is practically always 05.
Snoopy wrote:
If everything is so legal and handy dandy why do people keep killing themself? My point is ADM not legality!
@snoopy, should we wait for the investigation first?!
Otherwise we are risking Sala plane crash all over again – “he could not fly night, so that is the reason” while he had very high CO concentration in his blood…
I’ve just been made aware that in LOIH runway 05 is the standard runway. So it is highly improbable that the right turn was a mistake from taking off more from 23. My apologies, I got that wrong. I assumed it to be 23
As a local Pilot, i may give my 2ct:
The Pilot was based at the Field. At LOIH T/O and LND’s are done on Runway 05 over 90% of times – the Standard Windpatern and the Airfield layout favors 05.
So a unintential turn to the “wrong side” could have happend when Taking off on 23, from 05 probably not. A Return to the Field should also result in a left turn. There are a lot of empty fields to the left, except the Autobahn and a few Farms. On the Right there is a big Industrial Area and the Mountains. Probably he wanted to Climb above the field, but then again the left turn would have been a much better option
At the Time of Crash i was about 5nm North of the Field, and Fog was quit dense. The kind of fog where you could feel the wet Air on your Skin. Could have been different at LOIH, as it is further down the Valley.
Here a Webcam from the Mountain next to LOIH – The Airfield beeing outside the left lower Corner (you can select the Time a look back, as you can see the Fog came in last night and is probably here to stay some days)
https://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/dornbirn/2021/11/11/0650
Snoopy wrote:
I wouldn’t bet my life on „self designed IFR procedures“. I wouldn’t even fly professionally designed and published ones in a SEP in such marginal weather.
These are two different issues and should discussed as such.
Snoopy wrote:
My point is ADM not legality!
Exactly the point of this presentation we had the prior week
Alhough we do not know the level of relevance of decision making in this occasion, I still agree it is good to discuss scenarios respectfully for our own benefit.
Matt_FK wrote:
Here a Webcam from the Mountain next to LOIH – The Airfield beeing outside the left lower Corner (you can select the Time a look back, as you can see the Fog came in last night and is probably here to stay some days)
https://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/dornbirn/2021/11/11/0650
Beautiful location and beautiful flying wx…except for the fog.
If everything is so legal and handy dandy why do people keep killing themself? My point is ADM not legality!
No idea in general or in this accident, but how to fly IFR in Golf VFR airports using GA is a big missing item in ATO training: it’s done from 3km ILS runways with ATC or from VFR airfields with 50kft ceiling and 100km visibility
It’s rare to find an IRI/IRE in ATO who fly IMC in Golf (in SEP) or IFR from VFR airfields, let alone teach one thing or two about it, the wisdom is no IFR unless ceiling is above MVA, or remain VMC on VFR scud run, or don’t fly 
Few instructors have the flying profile for it, likely Bizjet pilots or experienced owners, they tend to have a very simple thinking model: you are IFR at 50ft then on GPS in/out then on AP on straight line toward your MSA, as someone said before, it’s not rocket science !
In this case, things could be completely different the pilot is based in this airport, he surely knows how to get in/out and as some said he probably went to the wrong turn, side or runway (which can happen if one flies freestyle circuit instead of GPS tracks or HSI headings)
What people need to learn is that if they use airports without IFR procedures, they will have to design their own procedures in advance and be satisfied that they are safe. Departure is seldom a problem as long as you have a bit of forethought.
That would be my takeaway from the accident, the actual circumstances, I was not in the cockpit measuring cloud distance, it’s up to PIC to make those measurements, they are irrelevant for one way takeoffs anyway…
Most ATOs in the UK doing IR in the South (Gloucester, Oxford, Cranfield, High Wycombe, Shoreham, Stapleford, etc) operate out of ATZ and Golf, with Oxford having the added radar capability.
I was referring to IFR training done outside UK, yes, in UK it’s doable due to airspace structure (although flying order book or training manuals rarely go bellow VMC for IFR in Golf, I recall something like no IFR takeoff in SEP bellow 2-3km & 600-1200ft ceilings)
