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PA46 Malibu N264DB missing in the English Channel

We were talking about the legality of night flying on FAA61.75 without ever being instructed at night, for simplicity let’s say it’s 1SOB

For 2SOB, PIC+PAX, yes there is 3 takeoff/landing currency to take pax (unlike when holding an EASA IR where night is waived) and yes 90 days landing currency, does not carry between class by day or by night, you will need 3 for SEL, 3 for MEL udder FAA the same way as you need 3 for SEPL, 3 for SEPS, 3 for SET, 3 for TMG, 3 for MEP, 3 for MET, 3 for PA46 in EASA

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Oct 18:44
Paris/Essex, United Kingdom

Getting back to basics, I don’t think I have ever met a PPL holder who has been flying for years but never did the night qualification.

Not having the NQ makes a PPL really quite useless. I know a lot of people never fly literally at night, and anyway most cannot, even in evenings, because most GA airfields are shut, and it is a hassle with hotels etc (hence I have just 30hrs at night versus nearly 3000hrs TT), but not having the NQ means that, in the “6 months of the winter” you can’t fly somewhere when you are planning to return in the afternoon – because you will quickly approach the official sunset + 30 mins deadline.

And this isn’t something you can hide, either, because everybody and their dog can see that you landed during official night. And if you are somebody who is “noticeable” or has enemies (e.g. you fly people around who are clearly paying you, and that could be just Wingly which is not illegal but provocative as hell and very obvious from a long string of different passengers with luggage, or you run a pilot forum ) then you are a fool to not have the NQ.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

For me it’s the other way around.
I know more people without a night rating.
The general consensus was despite not being really keen on night flying, and various decisions around SEP risk at night, it’s the 90day currency that precludes the chance to use it unless carefully pre planned.

I only did my night rating because a) I didn’t want a ‘day only’ IR and B) the IR trumps the 90 day rule so it remains an option 24/7.

United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

but not having the NQ means that, in the “6 months of the winter” you can’t fly somewhere when you are planning to return in the afternoon – because you will quickly approach the official sunset + 30 mins deadline

And then the destination airfield will be closed, anyway. Welcome to flying in Central Europe.

I’m currently doing my night qualification and it’s a PITA because I need to fly back to my car in the next morning. Under these circumstances it will be near impossible to stay current in order to be allowed to fly with passengers so it it cannot be legally used for a plan B in case of a delayed return flight.

EDQH, Germany

That’s true but a) you might be solo, which is then legal, and b) while everybody will notice your landing at official night plus 10 mins, they are unlikely to notice any passengers I can well understand why people let their night passenger carriage privilege to expire (for an N-reg you need sunset plus 1hr, which is pitch black, and 3 takeoffs and 3 landings) but still most people I have known did their NQ right after the PPL (except in the summer, when it is hard; doing my FAA 150nm night x/c in the UK involved overnight stays in various dodgy motels at Norwich and Southend).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Not having the NQ makes a PPL really quite useless.

Don’t agree. I have the NQ (obviously due to the IR) but in the last 5 years did not do a single non training night landing. Therferofre not having th NQ would not have had any impact on my flying

Germany

Peter wrote:

Not having the NQ makes a PPL really quite useless.

It doesn’t influence EASA PPL without IR at all in the countries where night VFR is not allowed except in the pattern. In EASA-land NQ is practically only a prerequisite for IR and in majority of the countries it’s totally useless by itself.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

I don’t have a night rating – I just don’t see any utility for it in the UK.

As you say most GA fields are closed after dark, and neither of my bases have lights anyway. Well, Waltham does have lighting at certain times during winter but only really for dedicated night training sessions (they call it ‘night flying’ like it’s a special activity) – nothing you could usefully plan for in terms of coming and going.

EGLM & EGTN

Peter wrote:

while everybody will notice your landing at official night plus 10 mins, they are unlikely to notice any passengers

That will be my usecase except for the part where nobody notices. In Germany you need a flightplan for night flying and since my alternate for a night landing is an international airport where the lack of will certainly get noticed. So you will either file a flightplan and document (no one will file for a VFR day flight) that you intended to land with passengers without being current at night or you hope to talk your way out somehow.

EDQH, Germany

Emir wrote:

in majority of the countries it’s totally useless by itself.

Do the majority of EASA countries not allow night VFR? (Serious questions, I haven’t checked myself.)

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden
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