I thought it’s maybe better to discuss all the Cirrus stuff in a new thread. Obviously we have a couple of Cirrus pilots here.
Yes, the parachute is one of the reasons for the weight limit. But I personally would not worry about a slight overload. There have been instances where the parachute worked close to 200 KIAS (while the official limit is 133 KIAS). So a 100 lb overload, for example, should be no big deal.
Yes, the SR22 NA is a bit nicer to land, and actually it is a VERY NICE landing airplane, not harder to land than any other single – i would personally say easier to land than most. In the beginning I only had one problem, i did not get it slow soon enough and would enter the traffic too fast. That’s what every pilot will do who flew Warriors and Skyhawks for 20 years like me. The SR22 will just not slow don so easily. You pull the power back to 20 percent and a minute later you’re still at 140 KTAS … My FIRST approach when I brought the plane home from England .. I entered the traffic pattern with 160 KTAS and had to leave it again to slow down :-)
The WORST combination for payload is turbo AND air condition, because the A/C will add another 50 lb to the plane. Mine has A/C – and i loved it this summer. Especially with the kids in the back seat in August it was MUCH LESS stressful than before. They would play with their iPods and it was almost as comfortable as in the car. After 5 months with air condition I wouldn’t want a plane without it anymore, especially if it was a family plane and I’d fly south to the mediterranean. But you lose some payload. My G2 is really heavy compared to Boscomatico’s without A/C.Check the empty weight if this impirtant for you.
Buying an SR22 gives you many options – and basically you will have the same performance for a little over 120.000 Euros for a G1 model with mechanical flight instruments to a + 700.000 Euro G5, and you can even spend more than that. In between these extremes you can find exactly what you need. I would first start with the TURBO – NONTURBO decision. If it’s a turbo then it’s ALWAYS a glass cockpit plane, because the first turbos were introduced in the summer of 2006 with the G2 version. The first ones will be AVIDYNE equipped, later G3s will be Garmin Perspective. That*s another one of the big decisions. While it’s clear that the Perspective cockpit offers a higher level of integration NOT EVERYBODY really likes it better than the older Avidyne Entegra. I think that the ENTEGRA IS MUCH EASIER to learn, and if you have not had a glass cockpit before you will feel like it’s all you will ever need.
The MAIN difference between G2 and G3 is the 90 lb lighter CARBON spar of the G3 and many other small refinements. Higher landig gear for more prop clearance (it did not help the look though), 1 degree more dihedral of the wing which made it possible to elimnate the “bungee” that connects rudder and ailerons (pilots who REGULARY fly both say the G3 flies nicer, but I could not tell when i flew the G3 for one hour). Also all G3s have WAAS navigators. It’s many little details that were improved.
The G2, on the other hand can be found for much less money and it’s really almost as nice, especially when you don’t have a comparison. Alls G2s are nice planes, but if you have the CHOICE I would try to find one after serial number 1663. That’s the point of a big electrical upgrade that eliminated the mechanical engine instruments and, more important, introduced the DAU (data aquisition unit) instead of the older SUI and the Master control unit (new version of that too) moved into the cockpit from the hot engine department. Most specialists say that this was a big and important upgrade. You also get a GLOVEBOX with that upgrade :-))
Especially planes that are converted to the retrofit DFC90 digital autopilot have very similar capabilities as Garmin Perspective versions. The DFC90 will give an older SR22 almost all features the (more integrated) Garmin DFC700 offers including Straight & Level button, IAS mode, Envelope protection, a very good flight director, and a lot more. It will even fly the plane SAFELY with full flaps at low speeds if you have the optional “Flap Wire” installed that communicates the flap setting to the A/P computer. Also don’t forget that a typical Avidyne equipped SR22, even with a DFC90 autopilot is 80 to 100.000 Euros cheaper in MANY cases. The Perspective cockpit is the more modern glass cockpit – but for a normal private pilot the difference is NOT relevant. A nicely equipped Avidyne SR22 with the digital autopilot is really a very comfortable “personal airliner”. I had to steal this term from Mooney :-)
At the moment the late G2s and early G3s are a VERY GOOD deal. For 200.000 to 250.000 Euros (G2) to 330.000 – 350.000 (G3) you can find a very nice SR22 with all factory options like EGPWS, Stormscope, Traffic, Airbags, TKS. Some of those even have air condition, many have semi portable oxygen. That’s still a lot of money, sure, but you have to understand that a very well equipped G2 can have a 2006 list price of over 550.000 Euros, ferry flight and VAT included. And many of these planes have less than 1000 h TT today. Mine (2006, #2206) had 800 h TT.
Look for a “gts” version (which means all options except air condition and oxygen) but actually most other SR22s (non GTS) have the same equipment too because most people would order most of the options., The prices are pretty low at the moment just because there are so many G2s and G3s on the market. The reason is that many Cirrus pilots buy the newest model the moment it is announced, and so the market was flooded the last years. Because of this older SR22s lost some value compared to Bonanzas and Mooneys of the same age – but if you’re in the market for a used Cirrus you’ll like that.
There’s a lot more to say … if you need more information JOIN COPA, or ask!
Mike Busch, who runs Savvy, is the best expert about engines on the market. I am not with Savvy, but I read all his columns i flight magazines and learned a lot from him.
Among the most important rules for Cirrus pilots are:
- Never let the CHT rise above 380°F, if at all possible
- Make sure that the full power fuel flow at take-off and in the initial climb is 28 GPH, not less
- Fly LOP (lean of peak in cruise) for max. engine life and cost saving. I do and it results in 170 KTAS at FL110 and 12.5 GPH
- Do NOT let your shop pull a cylinder because it didn’t reach 80/60 compression. Not even a 80/50 compression does necessarily mean that anything is wrong with the engine.
- Be sure that compression tests are made with the right tools and always insist on borescope inspections and oil analysis
The above rules are really the bottom line of the experience of several thousand Cirrus pilots and the best experts in the field.
If your shop insists of pulling/repairing/changing a cylinder because it had a lower compression reading – change the SHOP not the cylinder
As the previous proud owner of Alexis’s Cirrus and now freshly owner of an SR22 G3 Turbo Perspective, I’d like to contribute to this new thread (plus Peter, who is a good friend, asked me to contribute on onboard oxygen concentrators, which I’m happy to do here unless he insists to be done in the dedicated thread :-). I’d like to start asking what are the empty weights and arms (as per POH) of the SR22s out there, to understand the variability of these parameters so important if you want your insurance to pay if something goes wrong and you need to fly with 4 people on board. My new plane has 2363lbs/138.6, which for a G3 Turbo Perspective with AC seems to me pretty exceptional, and was actually one main selling point for me to buy that specific plane (I have practically the same useful load of a G5!)
Mine is a 2005 G2 SR22 NA and the equivalent numbers are: 2338 / 139
I can not get four adults, luggage and full fuel and stay legal. In fact, with my family (1 × 200lbs, 1 × 180, 2 × 160) and the maximum allowed luggage load of 130 lbs, the theoretical maximum fuel I can load and stay both under the weight limit AND within the CG limit is only 36 USG (the weight alone limit would be 40 USG) vs tank capacity of 81.
In practice, we never carry anything like 130 lbs of baggage and always fly legally with between 50 and 55 USG. Flying high and LOP with an average burn of about 13-14 GPH including take off and climb ROP, that’s a no-wind range of about 570 – 620 NM to empty or 450 – 500 with an IFR divert plus 45 min reserve.
Yes, considering that you have both Turbo and AC, that is indeed a good figure.
Mine is 2339, a G2, with semi-portable oxygen but without Turbo and AC.
However, you shouldn’t overestimate the importance of MTOW in terms of insurance payouts. If the insurance wants to refuse to pay, an overweight condition must have in some way caused the accident. So, if you run over the end of a short runway on takeoff, then yes, they might not pay. But if for example you lose your engine in cruise and crash land it into a field, they will pay even if the aircraft was overweight.
But yes, staying within W&B is still a good idea. I would not want a (non-G5) SR22 above 2350 lbs. Why? If the aircraft is above that number, it becomes quite impossible to fly with four healthy men and their luggage, even with only 2-2.5 hours of fuel (which is the practical minimum to start any kind of flight. (Don’t forget to calculate some TKS fluid).
What is however equally important for me is that with every pound less of empy weight, your short field performance will improve, which is so vital in Europe.
Boscomantico, do you think insurance would pay the repairs if you are overweight and you pull the chute after an engine failure?
Hey, Valerio!
Nice to see you here and glad you found a plane you like! Show a picture!
Mine (which belonged to Valerio before) is # 2206, a 2006 SR22-G2 GTS
G-YORC has an empty weight of lb 2425,6 – with air condition and semi portable oxygen. That’s 1100 kg, 40 kg more than Bosco’s (was that WITH O2?) … heavy. The arm is 143.5
Boscomantico helped me fly it from Gloucester to Munich in June!
Valerio,
in GERMANY i am sure the insurance would pay. I have talked about this with my insurance agent, and another one, several times and they both made it clear that the accident would have to be DIRECTLY related to the negligence/gross negligence.
How are SR22s on grass strips?
