To invest in property, or aircraft? TB21 for 240k euros, and other overpriced aircraft.

It is today at € 170K – no tax

@AlexTB20 – assuming you’re asking about N660MM – I dunno, you tell me, you already have a TB20 :-)

FWIW, I’m thinking that a TB20 is very high on my wish list, but not necessarily this particular plane. If I could spend 90k EUR on a plane I’d consider it more closely, but I don’t have that kind of a budget. That said, it does tick most of my “boxes”. I believe I initially saw it on Planecheck for 60k EUR, but wouldn’t bet anything on it.

I like that it has TKS, GAMIs and a nice engine monitor. While the TKS adds utility to one who can use it, takes away from useful load. The plane is an early TB20, these had lower MTOM than the later ones, so that needs to be taken into account.

I don’t like that the GPS boxes are not WAAS; the new prop is due to a prop strike.

For some reason it has been on Planecheck for 6 months or so, I’m pretty sure if it was a “steal” it would be gone by now. I’ve seen quite a few planes go as soon as the asking price dropped somewhat, I’ve bugged many EuroGAers for opinions about a few of those, unfortunately I still haven’t “caught” mine. Still hoping to :)

@tmo thank you for your advice!

I went to see the plane today in Germany, it has some rusty components (mainly landing gear related) but no sign of corrosion. Interior needs some work, and a new paint job would be nice.

There are some issues with the autopilot not going down the ILS glideslppe, ADF antenna inop, passenger side door skewed and touching the side frame on its way down before fully closed. Also the yoke seems to have about 2 cm of travel (left-right) before effectively moving the ailerons.

The main problem seems to be it is about 10 knots below the normal maximum speed. The owner says that’s due to an incorrect setting of the 3 blade MT propeller. Does anyone know (maybe @Peter) if this is a well known issue with this type of propeller?

Should I buy it in hope these issues can be solved later?

Please let me know.

The TKS setup can impact cruise speed, there are some threads on that here.
I’d wonder why one would not correct a propeller “setting” costing 10kts for three years.
I’m sure others will offer more insight. Best of luck, whatever you decide!

it has some rusty components (mainly landing gear related)

That does not speak for lots of TLC

Interior needs some work

A rather cheap job

and a new paint job would be nice.

A rather expensive job

There are some issues with the autopilot not going down the ILS glideslpp

potentially tricky to diagnose, thus potentially expensive

ADF antenna inop

Who cares? Most people would rip it out anyway

passenger side door skewed and touching the side frame on its way down before fully closed.

Wow. Doesn’t sound nice at all.

Also the yoke seems to have about 2 cm of travel (left-right) before effectively moving the ailerons.

That also sounds really bad

The main problem seems to be it is about 10 knots below the normal maximum speed. The owner says that’s due to an incorrect setting of the 3 blade MT propeller.

That does not make much sense. It’s constant speed prop, so in cruise flight, you can control it the way you want it, even if it where somehow set up badly.
I wouldn’t believe that story.

I know a 30 year old used aircraft will not be perfect, but this sounds like a run away case.

AlexTB20 wrote:

Should I buy it in hope these issues can be solved later?

No, no, no.

Hope is the most dangerous word in aircraft ownership. As yoda would say: you either know, or don’t know – there is no hope. Either get a full pre buy done where the owner agrees to drop the price by the cost of rectification and you can walk away if the problems are too bad, as can he. Or walk away now. Sounds like a money pit.

@Peter, as you have an extensive experience with the TB20, do you know what would be a ‘normal’ yoke play for an old pre GT model? Would let’s say a 1cm left to right play be acceptable, or it shouldn’t be there at all? Also the horizontal stabilizer has an up/down play of about 5mm, which the maintenance guys that took care of it till now say it’s normal, for an ‘old plane’.

I did some pictures with the plane in flight, that show at an altitude of 3,500ft with 75% (2450 rpm and 23.7 mp) an indicated air speed of 137-140 knots. Unfortunately I cannot attach it here, that would be a nice feature for EuroGA website. From what I’ve read, the speed should be much more than that.

I haven’t yet paid for it, I will do that on Monday if you guys don’t change my mind till then, I still have 2 days to fly it. Do you know any method to check it in flight to see if it is somehow skewed/rigged?

It seems to go ‘straight’ if rudder trimmed to neutral, but some say that’s not a sure indicator.

The owner wouldn’t let it go with less than 85,000 euros, and I wouldn’t like paying for more than let’s say 20,000 later in repairs.

Thank you, and sorry for wasting your time. I wouldn’t want to fill this forum later with thousands of posts related to a hopeless TB20 :)

Peter wrote:

I would take a walk…

…which I did on this one – an extended conversation revealed already some of the issues and the owner was not prepared to re-consider the price idea.
Got extra pics on which one could see some issue Alex mentioned.

The problems described by him require, IMHO, extensive technical know how and experience or a robust bank account.
At which point, why not buy a newer, nicer, plane which does not have to spend weeks/months in the shop?

Or get a really good deal.
Anything else rightly “matures” on planecheck.