boscomantico wrote:
One reason I personally would not change from Cirrus to PA46 is the terrible getting in
Its quite easy to get into the cockpit of the PA46 models, including the JP, though it took me 5 years before someone mentioned the trick. Instead of going in forwards, you back into the cockpit between the two rear facing passenger seats, then twist into the seat. Easy as pie.
The visibility is less than that of a Cirrus, because you are flying something much more akin to a small jet than a normal GA aircraft. It is due to the streamlining of the cockpit window. Having said that flying low level and or in the circuit poses no challenges whatsoever.
I recently had the pleasure to fly a ~15 yo meridian. It was quite cold imat the Pilot seat (oat was about -45c). But our passenger was literally freezing. Had to put on his down jacket and hat.
This kind of made me question the usefulness as a “family plane”.
Does the jetprop suffer from the same issue?
Emir wrote:
I obtained my driving license in Yugo
And I drove one as a rental car in Makedonia all those years back. Not a bad car as I remember, a sight better than the Trabants and Ladas I tried later.
Buckerfan wrote:
The visibility is less than that of a Cirrus, because you are flying something much more akin to a small jet than a normal GA aircraft. It is due to the streamlining of the cockpit window.
The Jet I recall which had the best ever view out of the cockpit was the MD11/DC10. Huge windows. But it was also pretty tight to sit in. Cockpit comforts in airliners really only came to live when Airbus introduced their dinner table.
Does the jetprop suffer from the same issue?
AFAIK, yes. But then, on most aircraft the back passengers really freeze when it‘s cold. Same with the Cirrus and the Diamond.
boscomantico wrote:
AFAIK, yes. But then, on most aircraft the back passengers really freeze when it‘s cold. Same with the Cirrus and the Diamond.
@boscomantico, I cuncur – I feel uncomforable and cold even in a C172 sitting the back my feet are getting cold almost immediately.
HBadger wrote:
I recently had the pleasure to fly a ~15 yo meridian. It was quite cold imat the Pilot seat (oat was about -45c). But our passenger was literally freezing. Had to put on his down jacket and hat.
This kind of made me question the usefulness as a “family plane”.
The Meridian has excellent heating but it requires some tricks. First you turn the heat up, which is probably what you did. Then if that is not enough, you have to turn the ECS to High. The cabin noise will increase a bit but then you get more bleed air and after a few minutes it gets warm. Then you can turn off the recirculation blower as it will circulate quite cold air in the cabin. With those steps we lately had a nice warm cabin at around minus 50C outside even in the dark. I think the ECS could even be turned up another notch to “EMER” to bring in even more bleed air but we did not try yet.
Start working on the setting before it actually gets cold based on past experience. If it is minus 45C outside turn up the ECS to HIGH right away in cruise and then see how it works out instead of waiting for the cabin to cool down. If you have passengers keep it on the warm side in the cockpit and sit in a t-shirt as it will be a little bit colder in the back. Also make sure there is no luggage and other stuff directly in front of the outlets which are very close to the cabin floor and passenger like to put their little bags there which then get cooked while the passengers get cold feet. Guess where my snowboard shoes will be on fly2ski trips with nice hot air warming them for the ski run later on ;-)
FWIW the TB20 seems to have good HVAC – having spent much time in the rear seats I definitely never got cold feet.
No personal experience but inadequate heating seems to be something I’ve read about on JP and also silver eagle conversions. But then even a TBM needs the cabin warmed before takeoff, again so I read, as once it cold soaks at altitude you will be unable to attain a comfortable temperature.
As you are finding out @Buckerfan for the right mission fit, *and right minded owner, the Jetprop is hard to beat in terms of bang for the buck (pun intended).
Great to hear you are enjoying your Jetprop. I still love mine and consider it an absolute privilege to own and operate one.
I am planning (80%) to bring mine back to UK this summer, so would love to come and visit your strip. :)
Being as much of a Jetprop fanboy as yourself, l would still be selective about who should own one. Firstly there is the payload issue, secondly the lack of systems integration means there is nothing to protect you from yourself other than yourself, your willingness to be on top of your game, and put the effort in to own and operate one, including a lot of maintenance macro management.
This is where Cirrus/ Dimond have been smart, transplanting not only the look, feel and operation of a modern car into GA, but a dealer and training network to support it as well. The chute was and continues to be an excellent “convincer” for the other non flying half on how safe GA can be, and the increased likelihood you will be around to enjoy the Sunday roast each week. I forget how many times l have been asked if l fly with a parachute whenever l discuss flying with non pilots. Perception about safety is a critical driver to sales.
My commitment to my Jetprop is considerable and time consuming, a price l am willing and able to pay, financially, physically, and emotionally, but most are not in that position and need/want that dealer (mechanic with type experience and parts) experience with limited time to be chasing obsolete parts, or overseeing a mechanic who is learning by doing on your airframe at your expense, and risk.
I am looking forward to reading about your continued adventures in your Jetprop around Europe, so l can follow your trail. :)
Cheers. E
EAL’s Jetprop is in the EuroGA banner 
I think the problem with heating systems is that they are simply primitive, from 50 years ago. On the TB20 there is a crude valve which needs to be adjusted exactly right so when it is closed it really is closed, not a 1mm gap, otherwise you freeze, and most mechanics don’t know about that. I would not expect a PA46 to be much better.
I have a photo of it somewhere but it’s off topic.
Sebastian_G wrote:
turn the ECS to High
Sebastian – what do you mean by ECS?
To be fair the heating system in the JP is tricky. I am still learning how to get the best out of it.
The key thing, as you say, is to get the heating on right away. I even turn it on on the ground before departure on cold days. The challenge with the PA46 is that the ducts to run hot air to the rear cabin run just under the skin of the aircraft, so once they get cold soaked in the climb it takes a while to heat them up again.
I have a nice fleece blanket I keep in the back for rear pax – keeps them warm as they relax with their feet propped up on the rear facing seats with the laptop open on the burled walnut table so they can enjoy a movie and a glass of champagne.
