There are so many variables here. In no particular order:
- what are the desired trips (time/distance)?
- how many people do you (want to) fly with?
- is visibility from cockpit or cabin a concern?
- pressurized?
- what’s the mx situation at your home base?
I left money off the list, because if you’re even considering a SET that’s obviously not a factor.
As for MEPs. Know that mx costs aren’t double of a SEP, rather triple or more if you get into pressurized airplanes.
In any case, both MEPs and SETs are made to go places. Neither are good for bimbling around. It’s very different flying compared to SEPs (I fly both, mainly MEP these days).
As for some of the types mentioned above:
- Baron: solid platform, PITA to get in and out (55, the 58 is great), rather expensive to maintain. 180-200ish kts cruise, depending on type.
- Tecnam 2006P: essentially a trainer, slow, cruises at 140kts or so. Small, but nice.
- Partenavia (now Vulcanair): similar to Tecnam, just bigger
- Piper Aerostar: fast, easy access, great airplane.
-PA46: very cramped inside (I know @Buckerfan, you’ll contradict me in a second, LOL)
One airplane that hasn’t been mentioned is the C210 Silver Eagle, which might tick most of your boxes.
In any case, if you’re in the enviable position to buy a SET, you can get that AND a small SEP runabout. I believe that’s what @Buckerfan is doing.
172driver wrote:
In any case, if you’re in the enviable position to buy a SET, you can get that AND a small SEP runabout. I believe that’s what @Buckerfan is doing.
Ha thats exactly what i was just thinking. I could keep my TB20 for sightseeing, and a TP to go places. Well, then ill need my own hangar (can barely hangar my tb20 at the moment…..). This becomes more expensive by the minute.
Rami1988 wrote:
This becomes more expensive by the minute.
No shit, Sherlock !
your single piston still has a 1 in 3250 hours chance of breaking at any moment
Source for that number please? If it was correct, most long term owners would have had an engine failure, and a fair % of them would be dead. The MTBF of a Lyco engine has been variously estimated at 50k hrs.
I could keep my TB20 for sightseeing, and a TP to go places
Poor currency in both
If you never practice forced landings, good luck when your engine stops..
Good luck force landing a twin with a Vs of 80kt+
Which doesn’t make it useless for many other people than yourself
I don’t see why “yourself” comes into it. Please don’t turn this into personal stuff. I recommend researching European Evolution owners, their “business interests” and other related factors We’ve had some interesting discussions on this (use a Search). The fact that most flights are clearly and very visibly (due to Mode S mandatory) illegal has to be something which doesn’t bother the pilot at all. This leads to, ahem, a certain selection on owner personality type: well connected East European businessmen
Like I said, please read the threads here.
The cirrus costs me say 60k a year for 200 odd hours
That’s atrocious.
nobody cares about visibility from cabin.
If you are bored with flying, and it’s just a job, and you don’t enjoy photography, that is probably true.
then i’ll need my own hangar
That is true for the least-hassle ownership experience (well, a hangar where maintenance is allowed, and nobody blocks you in) but is hard to find in the UK, due to costs of land, and airfield politics. I almost did it in 2005 but a crooked estate agent did me out of it
The Jetprop is a good compromise. Several owners here can offer their views e.g. @eal @quatrelle.
Re flying at night: this is a big topic but in Europe, unless meeting customers (and with most of those you have to conceal that you are a pilot!! – plenty of past threads) you end up doing very little flying at night, due to a) airport opening hours and b) wx being usually much better in the morning and c) normally you want to refuel right after landing.
nobody cares about visibility from cabin.
Well, I guess my name is Nobody then
keep my TB20 for sightseeing, and a TP to go places
Doesn’t sound like a great plan. The TB20 is also a going-places aircraft, though not as good at it as a twin or TP. For just bimbling round admiring the scenery it is overkill, and not ideal for landing in out-of-the-way places. You’d be better off with e.g. a Citabria (though rare in Europe), a Super Cub or one of the modern equivalents thereof, like the Carbon Cub.
Doesn’t sound like a great plan. The TB20 is also a going-places aircraft, though not as good at it as a twin or TP. For just bimbling round admiring the scenery it is overkill, and not ideal for landing in out-of-the-way places. You’d be better off with e.g. a Citabria (though rare in Europe), a Super Cub or one of the modern equivalents thereof, like the Carbon Cub
Yes, TBM for going places & TB20 for sightseeing seems like an overkill? they fly on same runway talking to same controllers !
Some people here have gone for better combinations: JetProp & Cub for backgarden bimbling, SF50 & KitFox for bush flying, TBM & Extra for aeros…
Something like: high wing & low wing? or low wing & upside down? tricycle & tailwheel? 300kts vs 30kts?
Oh, boy. Big topic.
I just want to mention there is a third option – turbine twin If you stay away from PT6’s, the cost is almost the same as a single PT6 SET and they tend to be lower in capital cost as well. Have a little look at Cessna Conquests, Turbo Commanders and Merlins. Or even the King Air B100 – an often overlooked little Garrett powered model.
But, with turbines, you are always on the hook for $100K+. Yes, they break less often, but when they do, it can easily get up there. With pistons, you only need about half. As an example, just got off the phone with Bruce at Arkansas Turbine here in regard to my TPE331 engines, to see what the latest HSI prices are. He said, best case scenario $60K, but expect $75-100K realistically. That’s more than a PT6 HSI, but you gain that back in spades when it comes to overhaul and fuel burn.
Overhaul a Fuel Control Unit? $30K. Etc, etc. Other items not related to engines, are similar in price to other twins etc – it’s mainly the engine components that account for the higher costs.
I’ve had twins since the beginning because I’m a chicken when it comes to SEP’s over terrain. Even in my earlier older NA twins, I was always nervous over the Rockies etc. Especially at night. With the turbine that fear has gone away, but at a higher cost. If I went back to pistons, I’d go back to an Aerostar. They’re awesome and have turbine performance on a piston budget. But, I know Avgas is a problem.
That would be MU2 while we are at it, it flies FL280 at 280kts (or even FL300 RVSM)
Pros: certified, pressurised…and new it’s 1/2 price of new DA62
Cons: pilot skills, currency and training (likely unforgiving)
Well, I guess my name is Nobody then
I meant this as in “Nobody buys a TBM and then has (usually completely disinterested in flying) passengers complaining about the view.”
Obviously if someone enjoys slow trips with sightseeing then a piston makes a lot more sense than something flying up in the high FLs.
I personally enjoy both, sightseeing in canopy planes but for IFR/IMC I prefer the enclosed/encapsuled airliner style cockpit (PA46, TBM, etc..).