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Next step - turboprop vs twin

Update: I passed my SET TBM on a G1000 tbm850, and all associated theory tests (there was a lot of them!). Total blocks time for the course was around 20 hours.

Overall, I feel quite confident flying it. I plan to spend some time reinforcing the systems/aircraft/procedures knowledge (its really very important as Peter mentioned in the thread) and doing another 20 hours or so with an instructor going places before doing my first ‘real’ solo (insurance permitting..).

I would say the biggest challenge was getting used to the throttle especially going from idle to full. Knowing where full power is so you don’t over torque the engine but also still have full power for take off. The other challenge was landing it – you have to really nail the speeds. The wings are designed to fly at 200+ knots not at 85 knots (vref). Its very nose heavy as well so it has a strong tendency to pitch forward if you are too slow. There is also a strong drag effect when closing the throttle so getting the landing technique right was very important. Important to note this aircraft is not forgiving at low speeds. I got a taste of that doing the full stall where it did a vicious wing drop as I pulled through 10 degrees. It was quite dramatic as it went from being completely stable to a very unusual attitude very quickly requiring immediate intervention. Compare that to my TB20 which is a real challenge to fully stall!

Overall really enjoyed it. Its an amazing aircraft – a mini airliner. Out of 12 sessions or so, I only had to cancel 1 due to weather. Even then could have probably flown if I really wanted to!

EGKA, United Kingdom

I am not familiar at all flying the TBM. I have however recently studied the AFM for one of my professional projects and was surprised to see the wide CG range. I bet the above nose-heaviness changes dramatically when you put some pax and baggage in the back.

I have a similar issue with the P210 which I manage by using the aft fuel tank and lots of pitch trim.

Antonio
LESB, Spain

Congrats, Rami, you are almost there! Post pics, will you?

Antonio
LESB, Spain

@Rami1988
Nice writeup! Did you get the G1000 MFD sd card logfiles for de-briefing and further study in FlySto.net?

I am a TBM CRI and have flown a 9xx since 2021 all over Europe. I also had the pleasure to spend some time flying/training in the US with a very renowned TBM instructor. I think I had around 6k hrs TT when I flew with him, and the input he gave for flying and landing the TBM was so valuable it made me a better pilot overall. Some of the exercises specifically addressed the points you listed. Hint: It’s only nose heavy if not trimmed.

I don’t know who you did your training with and how much supervision/mentoring you will continue to receive, but the contact points I had with TBM training in Europe so far where unfortunately not very remarkable. The market is small and insurance requirements are low. And it’s not an attractive business around here. (Daily rates for high end SEP training in US are 1700-2000$, a TBM 2 day recurrent is 5-10k$). In Europe, all that is required is a short flight every two years.

My recommendation: join TBMOPA, it’s really a wealth of information.

All the best for your TBM endeavor.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 01 Dec 08:47
EASA BIR CFI
LO__, Austria

I wouldn’t recommend too much pitch trim on the tbm because the potential go around will be a lot more tricky due to potential for torque roll.

Is it possible to post pictures from the mobile Web app here?

EGKA, United Kingdom

I didn’t actually get the logs but that’s a great idea thank you. I want to go through the PIM again as well to reinforce the knowledge now that ive flown it.

Its definitely a small market. I did the rating with Oysterair and they are really very good. I’ve spoken with so many ATOs and they are by far the most professional ive come across. My instructor owns a TBM himself so I am getting a tonne of advice on owning/managing it too and will continue to do so. I plan to do some more flights with him (and maybe others) until I find a TBM id like to buy.

What im struggling with is the value proposition in buying one. The rental rates are so cheap in comparison – it just doesnt make sense to own.

As an example, the aircraft costs around $2m. With $2m cash, the risk free interest rate is around 5% so $100k per year. I can get 80hours or so renting it per year just with the interest on the cash! Spending 0 on maintenance and taking 0 risk on my capital… so unless the tbm will appreciate significantly it just doesnt make sense..

Last Edited by Rami1988 at 01 Dec 09:25
EGKA, United Kingdom

You are absolutely right about the financials.
Owning is expensive because you pay a premium for solitude: nobody will touch your plane, it will wait for you whenever you want to fly and everything will be as you left it (headset etc..).

If you decide to fly to Spain and stay there for 6 weeks in a rented TBM, your rental outfit will not be happy :)

so unless the tbm will appreciate significantly it just doesnt make sense

Daher sells 50+ new ones every year at 5.5m net each.

Which is also why in the long run, an old TBM will depreciate. This is offset a bit due to the new planes prices rising considerably every year, which makes upgrading old ones attractive and the small market yields good prices, but I wouldn’t plan on it.

Last Edited by Snoopy at 01 Dec 09:15
EASA BIR CFI
LO__, Austria

Snoopy wrote:

Owning is expensive because you pay a premium for solitude: nobody will touch your plane, it will wait for you whenever you want to fly and everything will be as you left it (headset etc..).

That´s worth it all! And you can take it away for as long as you please. Each to his own.

Last Edited by Yeager at 02 Dec 21:13
Socata Rallye MS.893E
Portugal

Congratulatios Rami1988! I can imagine how happy you are.

On the nose low attitude, I’d say it’s the effect of extending flaps and changing the center of lift rather than a W&B problem. Two handfuls of trim wheel after flap extension does the trick.

Concerning W&B, I remember the TBM is tail heavy with seats full. I had to put the largest pax next to me when flying with 6.

Would not agree about the fast wing. It’s thick as in a bush plane, low loading and shakes in turbulence.

Wish you get your new plane soon and enjoy it!

LPFR, Poland
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