Peter wrote:
Nobody will hire you without a CPL/IR and the “ATPL” exam passes (13) – this is labelled in Europe as a “frozen ATPL”For a CPL you need 250hrs. For an ATPL (which you cannot do as a course of study in the European system) you need 1500hrs including 100hrs night. In practice 500hrs in a multi pilot aircraft as well.
In practice a CPL “alone” is nearly useless in Europe, unless you get a job for an AOC operator, like an airline, and then you need the CPL/IR and the exam passes.
Peter, I’m not sure that is correct – I know of quite a few CPLs who were hired without an AOC.
For example, I’ve hired a few as a (kind of) safety pilot – wife doesn’t like me flying alone, so when I cannot find a companion I hire a CPL to do … nothing. :)
And for the corporate flying as well – if a company owns TBM/PC-12, then they could hire a few CPLs and that is it.
What has to be highlighter is that there is no much difference in terms of Theoretical and practical training between CPL and frozen ATPL in Europe.
You need an IR for all of those.
Indeed, as the other thread I linked says, an AOC senario is not mandatory. You can do ferrying, crop spraying, or a safety pilot for a wealthy owner. Only the crop spraying there doesn’t need an IR. The safety pilot needs type specific expertise.
And yes you can be a corporate pilot with just a CPL/IR but the openings there are rare and they look for very experienced people; it’s a hard job (I know some).
Peter wrote:
In practice a CPL “alone” is nearly useless in Europe, unless you get a job for an AOC operator, like an airline, and then you need the CPL/IR and the exam passes.
Depends what you want to do. You do need a CPL for quite a lot of flying such as doing VFR roundtrips from airfields and, if I am not mistaken, to become a CFI for a commercial flight training organisation, just to name a few. Also, while the PPL covers airplanes up to 2500 kg, the CPL does up to 5.7 tons (or at least used to).
@Dan thank you! Very extensive answer. A homebuilt would be great, however I need to fight a little bit with my authority, they said the non certified aircrafts are not recognized when it comes to building time. Maybe it works if you certify the aircraft as experimental, they were not able to respond to that.
@Sebastian_G not really, it takes about 5 minutes for the Rotax to warm up and if I am not the first one, it’s already warmed up and the taxi takes like 2-4 minutes depending on the runway. The airfield is quite small. Then once in the air, I don’t land and taxi for a while. That’s my plan, to rent for about 50 hours and get more experience.
@Peter I don’t want to go for an airline career. My dream is to have a small AOC with one (or more) Pilatus PC12 one day in the future.
@Ibra thank you! Nice one.
@Mooney_Driver the PPL works up to 5.7 tons (learned it in the theory subjects). But I really want to get the IR.
Laurent_N wrote:
I don’t want to go for an airline career. My dream is to have a small AOC with one (or more) Pilatus PC12 one day in the future.
Is that allowed? I thought SET/SEP are not allowed in AOC for A-B travel (only A-A). Had that changed?
I don’t want to go for an airline career. My dream is to have a small AOC with one (or more) Pilatus PC12 one day in the future.
Then you need a CPL/IR, and the HPA add-on. The CPL/IR is a whole game in itself. Do a search here. Best, probably, is to knock off the 13 exams, then do the IR (which freezes the exam passes for ever… actually for 7 years I think, and doesn’t need many hours in the logbook before you can start it), and then the CPL (which needs 250).
Lots of “kids” pay 80k-100k to an FTO for a CPL/IR and the exams (called a “frozen ATPL”). This can be chopped down if you are smart. One thread.
Later you will need a PC12 Class Rating.
I thought SET/SEP are not allowed in AOC for A-B travel (only A-A). Had that changed?
Last I heard, it is changing, but the rules (for AOC award) are not trivial, and country-dependent. One thread.
arj1 wrote:
Is that allowed? I thought SET/SEP are not allowed in AOC for A-B travel (only A-A). Had that changed?
Sorry, I think AOC is not the right term. A small company doing private flights, air ambulance. How is this named?
Peter wrote:
Then you need a CPL/IR, and the HPA add-on. The CPL/IR is a whole game in itself. Do a search here. Best, probably, is to knock off the 13 exams, then do the IR (which freezes the exam passes for ever… actually for 7 years I think, and doesn’t need many hours in the logbook before you can start it), and then the CPL (which needs 250).Lots of “kids” pay 80k-100k to an FTO for a CPL/IR and the exams (called a “frozen ATPL”). This can be chopped down if you are smart. One thread.
Yes, that’s what I am planning to do. I will need 150 hours to start the CPL (out of which 100 must be PIC).
Then I can start the CPL (actually if I do NR, IR, MEP I will have around 50 at the end which will make to 200 which is the mandatory number for the skilltest). In the meantime will take the theoretical exams.
Long way ahead, but I don’t want to get to the retirement age and look back with regrets :)
Peter wrote:
and then the CPL (which needs 250)
“have at least 200 hours of total flying experience, of which 70 hours as PIC on aeroplanes”
What surprised me a lot was the fact that between the PPL/IR pilot (with all the CPL or ATPL theory and exams) and the CPL/IR pilot there are just 15 hrs of mandatory ATO training plus the skills test.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
You do need a CPL … to become a CFI for a commercial flight training organisation, just to name a few.
AFAIK, “CFI” is not a term used by EASA. If you mean FI (Flight Instructor), then there is a concession that allows PPLs to be remunerated for flight training, as long as the training is for LAPL/PPL and ratings for these licenses. Ref. FCL.205.A(b)
Also, while the PPL covers airplanes up to 2500 kg, the CPL does up to 5.7 tons (or at least used to).
There’s no limit to the size of aircraft that you can fly on a PPL (or a CPL). Of course the amount of training necessary for a type rating may exceed what is necessary to get a CPL but the CPL as such is not required.
