A small company doing private flights, air ambulance. How is this named?
You need an AOC to carry people not related to the business of the company which owns the plane (roughly speaking). Air ambulance too.
The annual cost is 5k to 20k, roughly. You can see why the CAAs really hate what they see as illegal charter 
have at least 200 hours of total flying experience
That’s funny; I read 250 in some FTO newsletter this morning 
What surprised me a lot was the fact that between the PPL/IR pilot (with all the CPL or ATPL theory and exams) and the CPL/IR pilot there are just 15 hrs of mandatory ATO training plus the skills test.
If you mean that the EASA CPL is not much work, that’s true. It is a bit of VFR dead reckoning around the countryside, all dual I believe. But there is some ICAO x/c requirement. I did that for the FAA CPL years ago. 300nm I think. That requirement can be met with solo VFR flights in your logbook from years previously (although an FTO is not going to tell you that). Also there is ambiguity re whether the x/c must be done in one day, or with overnight stay(s).
Getting well off topic now I will change the thread title a bit.
AFAIK, “CFI” is not a term used by EASA
It is an ancient UK thing. If you start a flying school in a wooden shed, you are the CFI (chief flying instructor). You are responsible for some paperwork compliance stuff. The CAA likes to hang onto these quaint olde things
Peter wrote:
But there is some ICAO x/c requirement. I did that for the FAA CPL years ago. 300nm I think. That requirement can be met with solo VFR flights in your logbook from years previously (although an FTO is not going to tell you that).
I found these online:
To start a modular CPL course you will need to have a minimum of 150 hours flight time as pilot, meet the requirements for, or hold a night rating.
Before taking the EASA FCL CPL (A) Skills test, you must have: Completed at least 200 hours of flight time of which not less than 100 hours shall be Pilot in Command, of which at least 20 hours must be cross-country, including a cross country flight of at least 300nm including full stop landings at two aerodromes.
So you are right. I did a long flight during PPL training, however I think it was less than 300nm (PIC, with landings at two aerodromes).
Peter wrote:
It is an ancient UK thing. If you start a flying school in a wooden shed, you are the CFI (chief flying instructor). You are responsible for some paperwork compliance stuff. The CAA likes to hang onto these quaint olde things
I checked and EASA does actually use the term “chief flying instructor” for ATOs. This person is not, however, the overall responsible person of the ATO. In any case there is no license requirements – only a requirement of being an experienced instructor.
I would be curious what form of company do the holder of single engine turboprops have (is it an AOC?)
They types of operation acc. EASA, in a nutshell, are
NCO (non commercial, non complex)
- flying a C172 with friends
- training on a DA42
- company owns a PC12. Nobody pays to be aboard the plane.
NCC (non commercial, complex)
- a company buys a learjet. Nobody pays to be aboard.
SPO (special operations)
- survey, anti hail etc..
CAT (AOC)
- someone pays to be transported aboard the plane
A (fleet of) PC12s flying strangers from A-B is CAT requiring an AOC. Additionally the specific approval for SET CAT IMC needs to be obtained.
A new PC12 from the factory is around 7m USD give or take. The amount of FTE (full time equivalent) employees required to fill the nominated person positions will depend on the scope of the operation as mandated by the competent authority. By the time, if, the AOC is granted about 50-100k EUR will have been required. Essentially you are running an airline style overhead and charter prices for such flights in the market reflect that (20k EUR for a return trip are typical).
So technically, it is possible to run an AOC with single engines.
It helps if you are in these setups: DGAC AOC with TBM or FOCA AOC with PC12
Operationally, you will also need very long runways (straight ahead landing or 180deg?) and only fly along approved routes at heights that keeps you within gliding range (refuse ATC shortcuts or re-routings?), I am not sure the clients will get that much enjoyment from such operation or offer? plus you will be competing with same SET operating under NCO under some “owner arrangement” rather than “public transport” under CAT with AOC for SET (VFR, NVFR, IFR)
There is no useful case for SEP AOC
For many years, it has been possible to have an AOC for
What is new is A-to-B charters in SETs. Still single pilot. It started with the TBM, under some French DGAC AOC, maybe 10 years ago, then got expanded to the PC12 (probably because Pilatus complained like hell to Brussels).
I don’t believe there are any A-to-B charters in SEPs. Anyway, the piston charter market died many years ago, and to get any meaningful despatch rate which doesn’t need passengers to have balls of solid steel, and sometimes die, you need IFR, pressurisation, etc.
You can also do charters in METs e.g. King Airs e.g. a service LDZA-LDLO. Expensive! Originally, the EASA category was stricter for METs because Brussels had a mission to beat up the US and Europe has no “small” METs back then I don’t know how far this EASA Complex went.
Currently all jet charters need 2 pilots. @loco will know more. This obviously includes airlines.
I think that about covers it.
Yes. SEP AOC → VFR DAY
SET AOC → IFR NIGHT (CAT SET IMC)
Wow, very active thread – 3 pages in the last couple hours. Very interesting contributions, thanks to all.
Thank you! Could you explain what the 5-10k € is made of? Just a quick summary (how much is hangaring, annual, repairs, insurance).
About 1000€ hangar, 3000€ insurance (incl. hull coverage) – keep in mind I am a relatively low hours pilot and this shows here. I just have to accept it until I build time. Maintenance is between 2k the best years and 4-5k when there is more to do, like crankshaft inspection (due this year again). I do not do any maintenance myself except for the most basic stuff (like oil change before the winter), as I would be very much incapable of doing so.
But as was mentioned above, those numbers depend on so many factors that they will likely be all over the place.
If you decide to buy an aircraft, ask the previous owner to show you all past maintenance records and invoices. This will give you an idea of the running costs of that machine. The previous owner of my bird archived all paperwork in a very structured way, which told me a lot about the high standards he kept that aircraft. (confirmed by a more detailed look at the paperwork.) Don’t accept any sloppiness in that regard, and get a thorough pre-buy inspection done as well. Good luck with your decision :)
