Robin is quite a typical french company which was born out of its natural market, the french club scene. Pierre Robin was a club flight instructor turned businessman.
The wood construction made for light airframes and in the french club environment, its cons were totally manageable.
Socata, and MS before that, was the « official » french light aircraft maker for the Gov. It was nationalized at some point so for our elite it was part of the civil service family. Hence the TB10-20 of the SEFA (now ENAC), the public flight school. They got all sorts of subisidies for decades.
Robin was seen as a competitor to them and got punished for it.
Robin tried to go beyond the club scene with the R3000. I remember flying one when I was little. I was totally like my dad’s Renault 25 
R3000 vs DR400 is like C177 vs C172. Better is the enemy of good.
Robin tried to renew itself with the ATL for the entry-level GA. It failed, I don’t know why.
Their planes are pretty much eternal which doesn’t help their business. I saw one at 22000 hours TT.
After their crisis in the 90s, it got bought by a guy called Pellissier which soon got the reputation of a crook. Now it is his son.
Plenty more to tell. Just a shame overall.
Yes Elixir seems to succeed at replacing the club trainer market.
That’s a fascinating post from someone so well informed
Jujupilote wrote:
Robin tried to renew itself with the ATL for the entry-level GA. It failed, I don’t know why.
The ATL (which stands for Avion tres legere/very light aircraft) in some ways was the predecessor of the UL’s, even though it looks more like a motor glider. Somehow I think Robin was ahead of it’s time with it. Pity, it was a lovely little airplane. Some are still around and can be had for very few money.
Jujupilote wrote:
Robin tried to go beyond the club scene with the R3000. I remember flying one when I was little. I was totally like my dad’s Renault 25 R3000 vs DR400 is like C177 vs C172. Better is the enemy of good.
I found the HR100 a fascinating airplane in many regards. All metal, huge range and quite a nice cabin. They even made one with retracable gear but unfortunately with a geared “Tiara” engine, which is said to be expensive to maintain.
Jujupilote wrote:
Robin is quite a typical french company
I always liked them, even though as an owner I only ever looked at all metal airplanes, so the HR100 and the later ones. I think it is quite typical for Robin that the 166 exemplares built of the HR100 have 9 (NINE) sub variants. Quite confusing. The same goes for the R3000 which had TEN subvariants, basically parallel to the DR400 series with engines from 110 to 180 HP but all in metal. I thought the R3000 was a great idea but with too many sub variants.
So in the end, they came back to the DR400 and it’s sub variants which are to this day quite popular. At least they learnt the lesson others didn’t, so they are still around after a fashion. Somehow I hope they will survive and continue and, being French, I am almost sure they will.
The HR100 is a faster airplane, although similar to DR400 in the shape, but landing speed are definitely in the higher range. E.G. at full gross each (DR400 180 1045kg and HR100/210 1100kg) at sea level std temp, DR400 requires 530m and HR100 765m. The wing is what differs from each, the one from HR100 have been done by Chris Heintz (the H of HR). Comparing HR100 and DR400 is like comparing C177 and C172.
HR100 is in my list of good airplanes, but i fear that seating position is as bad as DR400.
Unfortunately, if Robin gets worse than receivership, it will also affect the maintenability of HR family…
Robin was seen as a competitor to them and got punished for it.
Socata and Robin hit very different markets, where did they compete? and what was the punishment for Robin?
I don’t recall Robin made any CPL advanced trainers?
There are only two ATO that teach CPL in SEP in whole France
AFAIK, Socata has made advanced trainers: TB20 for CPL in ENAC while TB30 was used by Ecole de l’Air for advanced training (“la selection”), now it’s replaced with Pilates PC21, the initial training was done in Grob 120, now it’s replaced with Cirrus series SR20 (“initiale”) and SR22 (“navigation et instrument”)
I have not seen many TB10, TB200,TB20 around in ACB? for sure none is used for CPL
I flew TB200 at ACB l’Aigle St Michel, it’s fixed gear and it can’t be used for CPL…
Maybe there are 2xTB20 that are used for CBIR in some ACB here or there
Ibra wrote:
I don’t recall Robin made any CPL advanced trainers?
The HR100 Tiara could have been seen as a competitor to the TB20 and possibly the HR100 fixed gear to the Tobago.
If I am not mistaken the HR100 Tiara was indeed used by some training outfits, at least I saw one which had an instrument panel which looked very much like a French trainer.
In general and not limited to France: Lots of schools these days have problems when asked to do a CPL training using an SEP, as they don’t have any. I’ve been asked twice to rent out my Mooney for the purpose in the last few years. It’s pretty rare but it happens. So on the French market, the TB20, ST10 or HR100-Tiara would have been possible airplanes for this.
greg_mp wrote:
sea level std temp, DR400 requires 530m and HR100 765m.
For landing? Total distance I reckon?
I’ve only once had some pages from a HR100 AFM and the information on it was scarce to say the least. Some of it was even hand written with a stamp from the factory. I don’t know if all of them are like this, but it did look a bit improvised at the time.
Yes, these are book figures off course.
Also remember this stuff is decades old.
Stuff like DGAC payments to these companies would be illegal under today’s EU rules. And the mutual-exclusive restrictions would have been hilarious in most places.
About the parts issue, every mechanic will tell you no 2 Robins are the same, but you can still order airframe parts and fit them in. Our friend PPG can talk about it. The problem is that you order your part, then Robin wait for x other orders of the same part to produce a batch. It can take some time until you receive it 
French commercial practice
About the SEP CPL, Aéroclub de Redon is thinking of offering CPL training in their Archer.
Stuff like DGAC payments to these companies would be illegal under today’s EU rules. And the mutual-exclusive restrictions would have been hilarious in most places.
I don’t think DGAC made payments to any of those companies? where did you read this?
For instance, the money Robins got in 2021 (1.7 millions) was from from industry ministry (not even “ministère de transport”, DfT like, let alone DGAC), the money comes from the plan “de relance” which is actually funded 40% by EU “green grants” (NextGenEU) for load of companies, that comes with lot of green BS: Robin had to invent economical aircraft by modernisation of DR401 and plant trees to replace woods they cut
Well 1/ it’s not DGAC who pays and 2/ a big chunk of that cheque was EU money
https://www.aviation-pilote.com/2021/02/23/un-bon-coup-de-pouce-pour-robin/
https://www.economie.gouv.fr/plan-de-relance/france-relance-un-an-soutien-secteur-industrie#
