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SOCATA MS 893 vs MS 892 - IFR capability? (why the VFR restriction?)

Gents,

I was reading though the EASA Type Certificate for the subject aircraft versions, and have come to the conclusion that the MS 892 does NOT have IFR capabilities (not certified). Where´s the MS 893 has IFR capabilities (certified – IF required equipment is installed acc. FM Supp.).

I´m not very knowledgeable in Type Certification. Is it possible, and/or feasible, to make an MS 892 IFR capable – I would assume not, but wanted to check if anybody would have facts?

Thank you.
C.

Socata Rally MS.893E
Portugal

In my world this would be an easy question. If the TC is not sufficient to allow for IFR, there has to be a STC for it. If this would be a US production there would have been maybe something in the hidden bushes, but EU built aircraft are far less probable to find somebody for the bureaucracy caused pain.

Given the Rallyes construction I somehow doubt there is an easy way to lift 892 to 893 standards other than i.e. reskinning everything (892 to my knowledge has no lightning protection whatsoever) plus changing engine plus adding equipment … which may be way more expensive than just go ahead and buy a 893.

Last Edited by MichaLSA at 13 Dec 16:23
Germany

@MichaLSA

I strongly assume that you´re right!
It´s mostly for ATC IFR (Z) filing capabilities for X-country (IFR) that it would be of interest to me. Not keen on IFR flying, and particular not IMC, on any SEP to begin with – but it´s a nice backup capability to be legal.
Thanks for your reply.

Last Edited by Yeager at 13 Dec 16:28
Socata Rally MS.893E
Portugal

I don’t know this aircraft, but is this

  • a VFR-only restriction on the Type Certificate
  • a condition on a Permit
  • lack of IFR equipment
  • something in the POH
Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter: it is TC restricted EASA.A.379

Section B: Model MS 892
Chapter 12.Approved Operations Capability
- Day VFR
- Night VFR if required equipment installed as defined in Flight Manual Supplement for Night VFR
- Flight into icing conditions is prohibited

Section C: Model MS 893
Chapter 12.Approved Operations Capability
- Day VFR
- Night VFR and IFR if required equipment installed as defined in Flight Manual Supplement for Night VFR and Flight Manual Supplement for Night IFR
- Flight in icing conditions is prohibited

Last Edited by MichaLSA at 13 Dec 17:42
Germany

Thanks @Peter
Thanks @MichaLSA

You beat me by the seconds!! Was just about to post it. Thank you.
Here´s the full link to the TC: https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/downloads/7158/en

It´s most likely a game changer (in my case) between the two versions. You´re limiting you own capabilities by equipment – if you already hold the SEP IR rating.

Cheers.

Last Edited by Yeager at 13 Dec 17:47
Socata Rally MS.893E
Portugal

- Day VFR
- Night VFR if required equipment installed as defined in Flight Manual Supplement for Night VFR
- Flight into icing conditions is prohibited

Same as my TB20 then

That is the standard Socata way of doing things.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

@Peter

What? I would have guessed that all TB20s were all IFR certified.. Well, that´s not a bad thing – if one doesn´t need it, why throw money at it – also considering maintenance.

Socata Rally MS.893E
Portugal

Now, I´m starting to wonder if it´s actually a requirement (for IFR flying) that the subject aircraft is in fact IFR certified in the Type Certificate, since it seems EASA regs have changed at some point (sorry I´m not sure when.. Maybe around 2020..), to “only” require navigation equipment for the planned route to be flown (by IFR), which would likely require more than; say only a certified GPS. Lot´s of other instrumentation is clearly required, other than just for navigation. Sorry, that´s a different topic – and I´m sure somewhere in here this has been discussed already. I´ll search.

Last Edited by Yeager at 13 Dec 18:34
Socata Rally MS.893E
Portugal

The TB20/21 POH has no mention of IFR (IIRC) but the TC has no VFR-only restriction, and by carrying IFR equipment as required for the relevant airspace (back in the days, DME, ADF, VOR, etc), it becomes an IFR aircraft. But now I see the TCDS covers IFR also; how old that is, I can’t tell you but I would bet it isn’t original.

One equipment discussion is here.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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