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Aircraft for sale with “no damage history”?

Which almost nobody would pay. Also hosting costs are (usually) barely related to data volume.

I need to create a viagra topic…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

This is waaaayyyy off topic (along with viagra and womens’ preferences ) but without click income there would be almost nothing useful on the internet.

Actually, there would be – you just need to charge per GB of traffic consumed. :)

EGTR

This is waaaayyyy off topic (along with viagra and womens’ preferences ) but without click income there would be almost nothing useful on the internet.

Most people don’t want to pay a single penny for anything. EuroGA is donation funded but that only works because the “admin” is unpaid. Even a single person’s salary would make it totally unviable and we would have to carry advertising, both visible and hidden (click income etc).

Aviation’s problem is in the types of people who participate in it, especially in business. The industry has deep structural problems, with chronic underfunding in most areas, driving a dog-eat-dog climate in which there is too little expertise to do a job properly.

The specific prebuy issues are a lot to do with a lack of literacy among buyers and sellers. Unfortunately there is not a lot of connection between being able to operate in the written world and having a few hundred k! And that is before you get onto actual dishonesty which exists in every field of human endeavour.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Sex has always sold. No difference there then.
Very little journalism actually exists these days, as whether it is social media or newspaper columnists for the most part all you are getting is opinion.
Just look at many tv news stations these days. They run 24/7 with very little news coverage , especially if there is some sort of disaster, inquiry, or political change, where they will interview anybody and hos or her dog.
In the political talk shows they drag out politicians that no one has ever heard of to NOT answer the questions asked whilst at the same time other journalists are dragged up to give their opinion on something on which they have very little knowledge.
But to get back on topic, I tend to agree with @Silvaire and @IO390. Do your own pre buy but make it a thorough one.
You are likely to see signs of airframe corrosion as well as a mechanic (unless you know and trust the mechanic really well). You can usually hear whether an.engine sounds right and an in flight check against instruments and for any sign of vibration helps here. If you can find someone that knows the type well, seek advice from them. There are always forums to check out as well.
Prop can easily be checked for signs of pitting/cracks or whatever..
Control surfaces and landing gear are easily checked if awkward.
Which leaves the avionics. That means checking everything in flight.
Finally if anything does not suit you walk away or negotiate based on the fact that this will need fixing or replacing.
But I think we can all agree that no matter how careful we are, there are no guarantees. So this should always be in the back of your mind.
So of there is a naked or bikini clad woman draped over the pilot’s seat, just ask her if she’d mind moving whilst you do your inspection.😉😁

France

gallois wrote:

After all you can say the same about politicians, estate (property) agents, software and hardware suppliers, airlines insurance companies, financial services etc.etc.

Yes.

I would say there are considerable differences between advertisers and their tactics, but there are many whose product descriptions have very little to do with the end product. But as the aim of advertising is, as you correctly say, to lure the client into a shop (today mostly webshops but in the old days the physical shop) and to make them part with their money. Advertising has a lot to do with psychology, it is trying to play with the “target’s” mind to create a desire so overwhelming, that the target will gain the opinion he needs the advertised product and will part with his money.

gallois wrote:

The whole point of the advertising industry is produce clickbait ie to get a product or service known. They are judged by the amount of products or services sold following one of their campaigns.

These days things go a bit further than that. Clickbait is the operative word: Today’s advertising industry lives from click quotas and todays press lives of the advertising they have and the clicks they generate. This imho is one of the most dangerous problems the world has today, because it leads the press to sensationalize every tiny bit of newswire item in order to lure people onto the commercial vendor surrounded article. Before that, the press lived of subscriptions and advertising alike, and yes they did have gory headlines too, but the also had more space than to day for quality journalism inside and beside the clickbait headlines. Today, every article written is to sell clicks and those are there to sell stuff.

I have nothing against serious advertising, but I adamantly fight against the clickbait and click-financed industry. Because they become not only more corrupt they’ve ever been, but so extremely dependent on who is clicking on the adds that the quality of journalism has totally been sacrificed at that altar. Hence, most papers today are not even worth anyhing as toilet paper. Most of the press has moved into the “influencer” spheres where telling news has become a by the by just if you can place some adds in it. Most websites of TV stations or news organisations today spend much more space on advertising than on content. Either by adds or in article advertising. And finally spam, the advertising genre which has ruined e-mail as a sensible way of communication.

gallois wrote:

Yes you do have to take all advertising, all PR and in fact all personal opinions with a pinch of salt. But we are all adults here and should do due diligence in some form or another, whatever we are buying.
An aircraft of course needing more due diligence than a packet of washing powder.

I stand by the point though that most of advertising has lies inside it. Sometimes balant and straightforward e.g. all advertising which makes use of bikini clad girls outside the swimwear industry are suggesting sex in exchange for perceived help in getting it by buying a Ferrari or Viagra. That most women won’t have anything to do with people who require either stands in stark contrast to the adds. Looking back at the “Marlborogh man” and tabacco industry comercials which not only painted the truth pink but simply blotted it off the landscape with the goal of making billions of people addicted, in my view was a massive crime. And in my view, meddling with people’s minds which is the first and foremost tactic any advertiser has to follow is a crime as well.

Politicians e.t.c. are following the same kind of tactics clearly, hence most of them are compulsive liars. Add to that scientists who wish to add money to their particular field of research and who use clickbait and exaggeration techniques to keep themselves financed.

Aircraft sales clearly are to a different public. Used airplane adds target people who know quite a bit about the matter, so clearly they are differently built than adds for a new brand of spaghetti. But particularly the glossy brochures of manufaturers are as full of dreamwaving dishonesty as a Viagra add is. Taking it with a bucket of salt may not always come that easy.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland

@johnh It was an informative story for me, so thanks for sharing !

France

it is a hugely regulated environment

Used aircraft sales (General aviation) is the proof that huge regulation can exist without any effect.

always learning
LO__, Austria

A few comments on the shark infested minefield that is aircraft sales.

Probably the most dishonest unethical and untrustworthy person I have ever met has an aircraft sales business and regrettably I judge all aircraft sales companies from this very low standard.

One of the biggest lies in the business is “ the engine has been overhauled “ this can range from the engine being painted to a full and comprehensive overhaul and everything in between, if you see the form from Nicolson McClarren , Gama or the manufacturer you can have faith the job has been done well, otherwise be very careful.

The changing of engine associated parts is another pointer, I can’t get too excited about reusing Teflon hoses as long as the visual inspection is OK,these can be flushed to remove foreign objects but the oil cooler even when ultrasonically cleaned is a bit suspect of containing bits of your last engine failure.

Airframes are a lot more honest with defects being out in the open but you need a type experienced mechanic to probe the known corrosion traps.

I personal won’t do pre-buy inspections because I can’t be sure of every detail and I am not going to get into a legal dispute that will cost me my house.

I don’t think a rant against the whole advertising and PR industry is justified.
After all you can say the same about politicians, estate (property) agents, software and hardware suppliers, airlines insurance companies, financial services etc.etc.
The whole point of the advertising industry is produce clickbait ie to get a product or service known. They are judged by the amount of products or services sold following one of their campaigns.
Could we do without it? Yes. But how would we know a product or service exists?
Many years ago the UK government thought that if a product was not advertised it could be sold cheaper. And so it could. It persuaded the soap powder manufacturers to make and sell a soap powder without tv advertising. There are only really 2 big soap powder companies in the UK. One of them being Unilever. Anyway, SURF was introduced to the market with no tv advertising but it was cheaper than the competition. And do you know what? Nobody bought it. So a tv advertising campaign was launched.
SURF became " Square deal Surf". The price went up and so did sales. Surf became a market leader.
Yes you do have to take all advertising, all PR and in fact all personal opinions with a pinch of salt. But we are all adults here and should do due diligence in some form or another, whatever we are buying.
An aircraft of course needing more due diligence than a packet of washing powder.

France

Rami1988 wrote:

I can safely say every aircraft advertisement I’ve seen and contacted the seller about ended up with me finding out the seller was dishonest about something.

Advertizing is ALWAYS dishonest. There is not a single add which does not try to put whatever they are trying to sell into a light which is at best unrealistic up to totally fraudulent. Advertizing is that. And if I get across people who work in PR or advertizing themselves, I belive their names only after I’ve seen their passport and even then with reservations. Don’t we all know the clichées about “used car salesmen” as the epitome of a person you’d not trust even to hold your beer while you tie your shoelaces? Or insurance sales men who scare the living daylight out of clients to schwatz them into covers they never need but makes them “safe”? Of course there are very different individuals out there and if you know one, you hang on to them. But in general, the advertizing industry, particularly today where it rules much of the world by the way of click-baiting the whole internet, are the most deplorable people in existence.

For planes, things are a lot more subtle. First of all, there is a lot of knowledge they can’t lie against. Secondly, as you mention, it is a hugely regulated environment and they get found out fast. But even then, by far not all who put their “treasures” in an unrealistic light are compulsive fraudsters, but very often simply folks who have a very unrealistc view of their own airplane and what it’s worth. And often just repeat what they have been told to put or try to imitate other adds. Private adds in all normalty are the attempt of the owner to make the maximum out of his airplane, often without malintent but very tinted view up to two blind eyes. It is also often scary what kind of ignorance owners turn out to have when it comes to their own airplanes, some not even knowing the make of their avionics because they just don’t care.

Hence, you can take a hint of what you are about to find and then you investigate yourself. Or, you get one of the reputable dealers to find you what you want. There are VERY trustworthy people out there in the used airplane market. Few, but those who did keep serious and customer orientated to both the buyers and sellers are seriously worth their money.

LSZH(work) LSZF (GA base), Switzerland
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