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New License, buy a retractable?

Great to see that somebody already did the hard work. Needing an AML STC for this is just regulatory idiocy, though – I hope they added every certified retractable in the FAA database to it. Did they also do EASA?

Biggin Hill

IO390 wrote:

That said, when discussing (aerodynamically) simpler designs such as Pipers, Socatas etc I’d much prefer retractable gear, even just because it looks cooler.

Do they look cooler? I would argue they look cooler in the air, but less cool on the ground where most people are admiring them. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy flying a retract and had to work to convince myself to go TB-10 instead of 20, but I think a nicely faired TB-10 looks cooler on the ground than a TB-20, as does an Archer compared to an Arrow. This is even more true with a Cessna, where the spindly legs on the RGs look cheap and unsubstantial compared to fixed gear and fairings.

Just my humble opinion…

EHRD, Netherlands

You certainly can make fixed gear very efficient but you have to use spindly legs and small wheels, and the result is a pure hard (and long) runway only machine. Especially long runway because to get speed you have to trade off Vs, which is not possible on a certified (max Vs 60kt, except TBM/PC12 which got a special 65kt dispensation). If you can trade off Vs (say, 80kt, like some Lancairs allegedly have, realistically speaking, if you want enough aileron authority to handle max power) then you can go really fast.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

The Jodel DR1050, with fixed gear, and an O200 engine has better load and speed than a Bellanca 14-13 with a 150 hp engine and retractable gear.
But it’s reported the 14-13 wins on right arm muscle development.

Maoraigh
EGPE, United Kingdom

Yes, and a rhinoceros runs faster than a cow although it is heavier and has a larger front section.
Maybe that is not a fair comparison, but a horse runs faster than a cow although they are of similar weight and size. There you go.

While I agree that with good fairings the penalty is less than what some make it, I believe the numbers as and when I see the same aircraft with the same engine as retractable and as fixed gear next to each other.

Biggin Hill

IO390 wrote:

Therefore I would argue that on something like a Cirrus, which is quite a refined and modern design, you would likely not see 10-20kts improvement with retracts.

We don’t have any numbers on this, but I agree, Cirrus SR20/22 are not designed for retracts and introducing a retract system on these would cause a bunch of other design problems impacting performance in other ways. Everything else equal a fixed gear equals more drag. But a retract system has performance implications too fx in wing design and weight, and when adding it all up – including the important economic aspect, not all planes will gain from a retract system. Cirrus did of course opt for retracts on their much faster Jet version.

When talking about drag of wheel farings and efficiency a lot depends on the design. And this becomes a balance between practicality and aerodynamic optimization. When building my RV8 I placed on purpose the fairings a bit low to optimize the drag. But after I started to fly it I realized they were placed too low for real world grass fields, and I had to get new ones and move them higher. This is just an example of the tradeoff between performance and practical use. The designer could have opted to improve the performance even more by using smaller wheels fx to allow a smaller faring. But small wheels and grass don’t go well together, especially not with a nosewheel type. RVs are on the practical end of the homebuilt spectrum still. Many exotic homebuilds get their great performance from incorporating solutions that would never see the day in the certified world as a commercial product. Its all a compromise and there is no free lunch.

THY
EKRK, Denmark

Cobalt wrote:

Did they also do EASA?

I’ve seen the P2 Advisory System installed on EASA aircraft, yes.

ELLX

Snoopy wrote:

To us at home on the couch it is. But beware, it can easily happen to us as well.

A prominent Croatian instructor and examiner (and Airbus captain) recently had his second belly landing while instructing. What do I think about him? I think he’s an idiot.

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/260506

Last Edited by Emir at 25 Jun 07:31
LDZA LDVA, Croatia

Emir wrote:

A prominent Croatian instructor and examiner (and Airbus captain) recently had his second belly landing while instructing.

I witnessed exactly the same event, in exactly the same type of aircraft, at Stapleford EGSG a few years back.
As the two instructors climbed out, I overheard them say: “We should have kept a sterile cockpit whilst landing.”

Rochester, UK, United Kingdom

Most pilots who do a gear-up keep very quiet about it afterwards but I have spoken to a few and the common factor seems to be some “strange” stuff going on in the cockpit.

For example one case was where the gear down did not produce 3 greens (or any greens; not sure) and the pilot was p1ssed off about something going on elsewhere so he just landed. Three other members of the syndicate were on board and still it happened. They had loads of fuel so could have tried exercising the gear, emergency gear release, etc. But, no, the guy just landed it! That was the story I got from one of those sitting in the plane. That was a PA28R. It was written off afterwards.

The Megeve one posted above is IMHO a total unfamiliarity with the aircraft, not least because the TB20 gear warning horn is bloody loud!

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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