New License, buy a retractable?

lukepower wrote:

I really began believing that, once you have your license, you “need” to do burger flights for the next 200 hours or so before considering anything useful. Personally, I began flying not because I like to fly circles and go for touch ‘n go’s all day, but because I wanted to go to places where I – otherwise – would either be unwilling or unable to drive in a sensible time.

Yeah definitely a big fat “no” to staying local early on. I did the opposite: constantly challenge myself with something new in the beginning. You really learn to fly by crossing borders, flying in unfamiliar territory, and landing at unfamiliar fields. It’s also helpful to fly a bunch of different types early on to get some sense of what you like and don’t like in an airplane. That would be my only caution to buying early on. Make sure you’ve flown enough airplanes to have an opinion. A Cessna feels a lot different than a Piper, which feels much different than a Socata, Beech, Robin, Mooney, etc.

I also agree that a retract is just about training, although I decided against one for maintenance reasons. After 21 years of renting nearly every imaginable type, I finally bought my first and am learning a lot about ownership. There’s a big learning curve in ownership for sure! I feel a bit like back in the beginning of learning to fly, except this time I’m truly finding out how an airplane works in a way I never appreciated when I just grabbed the keys from the club. Good luck with your search!

I feel a bit like back in the beginning of learning to fly, except this time I’m truly finding out how an airplane works in a way I never appreciated when I just grabbed the keys from the club.

Buy whatever puts a big smile on your face once you’ve pulled the covers off, or just as you take a last look when the covers have gone back on after a day flying.

For some that’s an aircraft that does most of what they want, and they are very happy with good-enough.

For others it maybe having more than they need, but is capable of everything they may, want if and when that happens.

Life’s too short to cut corners on big smiles.

My data point:

My first airplane at about 200hrs total experience was a retract (C177RG)

I made it a point to install an airspeed-driven gear warning.

I only once had an unexpected warning for mis-sequencing my before-landing checks during a practice short circuit at home base early on my career. Abnormal circuit. “no time” for normal checks. Just went around for another try. Maybe the throttle-driven warning would have advised timely, maybe not.

I have made it a point to , irrespective of earlier checklist completion, always check fuel (that is another topic) and gear selections on short final. Automatic. Always. Just like flaring. Automatic.

I have flown over 1000hrs in retracts since and, without airspeed-driven gear warning, never again had an issue.

Am I bullet-proof? Of course not. Is this a potential additional hole in the cheese? Yes, but in the absolute worst case, it will not kill you. You have bigger things to drive your decision making, as stated before.

There is no on-size-fits-all answer as the best answer is the one that suits you.

Are you a guy who is happy changing steeds (with all attendant workload, risks etc) every couple of years? Then by all means go in steps you are comfortable with. Just dont underestimate the effort that goes into acquiring an airplane. Lots of stories herein.

Do you view yourself ownership for the long run and have limited energies (financial, time etc) to devot to aircraft acquisition, then by all means go for something you see yourself in several years from now. Dont be afraid of retracts, just be aware of the implications and potential safety barriers you can use.

I personally like the idea of retracts. Get the wheel tugged away – out of the airstream, and it looks much cooler too 😊

What kind of airplane to buy depends hugely on the mission, budget and so on. IMHO there is no need to get scared out of buying a retracts though, but a few things to consider: they do come at an increased maintenance cost – not necessary much. When it works (and it normally does) there is usually not much additional costs other than a few things to check on annual, maybe a seal to replace and so on. But if the hydraulic powerpack fails or it needs major work it can become somewhat expensive, but certainly not a dealbreaker in aircraft ownership for most people.

But that said there is a good reason that “modern designs” – high performance singles like Columbia and Cirrus decided not to go with retracts. Some is due to retracts being disliked by insurance companies in the US. I supposed because of high cost associated with wheels up landing. But there is another reason too. A properly faired wheelpant does not cause much drag really in the speed range of pistons. 10 – 20 knots top end, or so. And the performance penalty can be offset by higher power, burning more fuel which in the US also comes at lower price. When all is calculated together including fuel, higher maintenance cost, increased insurance, increased manufacture costs there is little or no gain with a retract in SEP class – at least in the US market where most planes orgin from.

Operating a retract is dead simple as long as the gear goes up and comes down as commanded. Retract gear after takeoff, select down before landing (watch speed limitations). This needs to be worked into a routine. Checklist should be used also, but nevertheless wheel up ladings happens. Most likely because of a malfunction or the pilot in question is stressed or distracted by other things. I have never had a wheel up landing myself but I see why it can happen even to experienced pilots. Here is one example:

One last general note. While certainly not all things in aviation are like “just go ahead – dont think twice – anybody can do it…” Horror stories about things being difficult or expensive are sometimes told like 2nd hand stories by people that don’t have experience or that particular feature on their own plane (retract, turbo, constants speed… fill in the blank). Try to see through the natural tendency to defend own choices when getting input from others in the decision making. As far as operations go, instructors that have flown many different planes and mission profiles should normally be a good source of information. Im not sure why they would tell you not to get a retract in this case.

but I see why it can happen even to experienced pilots. Here is one example:

In this case I would not agree; these guys had absolutely no clue about which knob on the aircraft did what. The gear warning horn is very obvious all the way down.

They should have stuck to a nice safe C150

The TB20 has two interlocks on the landing gear, so you have to make two fairly big mistakes and be so new to the type that you cannot spot that it is flying much too fast.

10 – 20 knots top end, or so

That is a lot of HP and a lot of fuel.

The gear warning horn is very obvious all the way down.

To us at home on the couch it is. But beware, it can easily happen to us as well.

From human factors class: When task saturated/stressed etc.. one easily becomes „in-attentionally deaf or blind“. The aural sense/perception is one of the first to go. Probably led to the invention of the stick shaker, too.

This gear up landing looks to me like it has very little to do with not knowing buttons or levers and very much like a textbook example of „Why Pilots don’t always hear Alarms“.

https://theconversation.com/why-pilots-dont-always-hear-alarms-98434

I agree 100% but my view still holds that these pilot(s) were unfamiliar with the aircraft. If they were familiar, they would not have been task saturated This is not an Airbus.

Especially somebody flying a TB20 to Megeve… really?

Of course I could be wrong and this pilot had 2000hrs on the aircraft.

Peter wrote:

Of course I could be wrong and this pilot had 2000hrs on the aircraft.

Sometimes routine is more deadly than inexperience. I don’t know but it would not surprise me.

Mooney_Driver wrote:

Sometimes routine is more deadly than inexperience. I don’t know but it would not surprise me.

Exactly. I flew a 172RG for quite some time where the gear warning horn would come on way too early. The mechanics could never quite troubleshoot it. I had to make a BIG mental note not to forget the gear – you simply block that sound out. I – so far – haven’t landed gear up, but it can happen to everyone, even if you’re very proficient on type.

THY wrote:

I supposed because of high cost associated with wheels up landing.

It’s actually not that high. Engine teardown, prop o/h and perhaps some scrapes (assuming a smooth runway) and you’re looking at about $40k or so. This is a real figure, we had one in our club.